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Don't worry, there are plenty of us in the US that see these "junior" salaries as an impossible dream. In much of the country, even a senior engineer is doing w

Don't worry, there are plenty of us in the US that see these "junior" salaries as an impossible dream. In much of the country, even a senior engineer is doing well to have made it to six figures. 150k would be a end-of-career peak goal. You can see based on BLS data that 107k is the median salary for all software developers. [1] The figures quoted here are not realistic for most of the country. [1] https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Computer-and-Information-Technology/Software-developers.htm https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Computer-and-Information-Technology/...

sulam 6y ago
You’re comparing total comp (Levels.fyi) to base salary (BLS data).
- Amezarak 6y ago
  Fair enough, but most of us are not getting RSUs. Base salary is total comp, excepting things like 401(k) and HSA contributions.
  - sulam 6y ago
    Hmm, is this true? Do you have data for that? Big swathe of people who don’t get liquid RSUs: contractors, startup employees. Big swathe of people who do: all FTEs of large public companies (banks, tech, health care, etc). I suppose I’ve convinced myself that it might be true that “most” applies, but it’s a close call in my very back of the envelope analysis. :)
    - ghaff 6y ago
      >all FTEs of large public companies (banks, tech, health care, etc) I very much doubt that is true.
    - Amezarak 6y ago
      I have been an FTE in multiple F500 companies and been in a position to have insight into the compensation of many others and none of them received stock compensation except into their 401(k). My current employer (large public company) has a "deal" where I can buy company stock for something like a 5% discount.
busterarm 6y ago
I'm a Senior Engineer in NY and making about mid-level San Francisco pay. I'm happy though and I wouldn't live out there for anything.
atomicnumber3 6y ago
I'm from the middle of nowhere, USA. I recently left a local job that paid significantly more than "normal" software jobs locally (though fairly modest by by SF/NYC/Seattle/Chicago/etc standards), and I was quite lucky to have been able to work there. Truly an outlier even among outliers. I left for family reasons (we were moving cities) and basically just assumed I would need to work remote to find comparable comp. Still, I applied to a few local places that happened to be allowing "work from home". The offers were just depressingly low. In talks with one local place, I put down my current base pay + current (expected) annual bonus as what I wanted for my base pay. The recruiter told me they'd be very unlikely to be able to come close to that, because the number I'd put down was the top end of the range that they paid people with twenty five years of experience. I ended up doing their interview process just to get practice but due to a clerical error on their side, despite the fact that the result of the interview process was a decision to hire, they weren't able to make me an offer because all the positions had filled up. So I'm still technically waiting on their promise that "as soon as a position opens up, you're the first person I'll be calling". Anyway, I took an offer from a coastal company for 3-4x what I suspect they were going to be offering me. The worst part is this company was lauded as one of the best, highest-paying, most-generous-benefits-having companies in my area. So, I dunno. Clearly whatever they're doing works for them. But I've got a fairly dim view of my local job markets. I also suspect they'll be the kinds of places that just outsource development and/or die rather than raise dev pay if widespread-post-covid-remote-work raises salaries locally.
- Amezarak 6y ago
  Would be interesting to hear your experience with interviewing with and working for a coastal company. I'm in a similar situation - from and in the middle of nowhere. I am paid very well for my locality - indeed, I have more than doubled my starting salary out of college - but I still make less than six figures after ~8 years. My current job has some big benefits (light workload most of the time, little stress, a lot of flexibility, very strong job security, easily impressed management), but...well, if I could make 250k working remote, I'd strongly consider it. My experience with interviewing with coastal companies for remote positions is they were adamant about basing my salary on what I currently make + x%; my impression is that by hiring remotely they thought they could get a deal. I ended up leveraging this into a counteroffer, so I still came out ahead, but I'm not really interested in risking my intangibles for just a few bucks.

sulam 6y ago

You’re comparing total comp (Levels.fyi) to base salary (BLS data).

Amezarak 6y ago
Fair enough, but most of us are not getting RSUs. Base salary is total comp, excepting things like 401(k) and HSA contributions.
- sulam 6y ago
  Hmm, is this true? Do you have data for that? Big swathe of people who don’t get liquid RSUs: contractors, startup employees. Big swathe of people who do: all FTEs of large public companies (banks, tech, health care, etc). I suppose I’ve convinced myself that it might be true that “most” applies, but it’s a close call in my very back of the envelope analysis. :)
  - ghaff 6y ago
    >all FTEs of large public companies (banks, tech, health care, etc) I very much doubt that is true.
  - Amezarak 6y ago
    I have been an FTE in multiple F500 companies and been in a position to have insight into the compensation of many others and none of them received stock compensation except into their 401(k). My current employer (large public company) has a "deal" where I can buy company stock for something like a 5% discount.

busterarm 6y ago

I'm a Senior Engineer in NY and making about mid-level San Francisco pay. I'm happy though and I wouldn't live out there for anything.

atomicnumber3 6y ago

I'm from the middle of nowhere, USA. I recently left a local job that paid significantly more than "normal" software jobs locally (though fairly modest by by SF/NYC/Seattle/Chicago/etc standards), and I was quite lucky to have been able to work there. Truly an outlier even among outliers. I left for family reasons (we were moving cities) and basically just assumed I would need to work remote to find comparable comp. Still, I applied to a few local places that happened to be allowing "work from home". The offers were just depressingly low. In talks with one local place, I put down my current base pay + current (expected) annual bonus as what I wanted for my base pay. The recruiter told me they'd be very unlikely to be able to come close to that, because the number I'd put down was the top end of the range that they paid people with twenty five years of experience. I ended up doing their interview process just to get practice but due to a clerical error on their side, despite the fact that the result of the interview process was a decision to hire, they weren't able to make me an offer because all the positions had filled up. So I'm still technically waiting on their promise that "as soon as a position opens up, you're the first person I'll be calling". Anyway, I took an offer from a coastal company for 3-4x what I suspect they were going to be offering me. The worst part is this company was lauded as one of the best, highest-paying, most-generous-benefits-having companies in my area. So, I dunno. Clearly whatever they're doing works for them. But I've got a fairly dim view of my local job markets. I also suspect they'll be the kinds of places that just outsource development and/or die rather than raise dev pay if widespread-post-covid-remote-work raises salaries locally.

Amezarak 6y ago
Would be interesting to hear your experience with interviewing with and working for a coastal company. I'm in a similar situation - from and in the middle of nowhere. I am paid very well for my locality - indeed, I have more than doubled my starting salary out of college - but I still make less than six figures after ~8 years. My current job has some big benefits (light workload most of the time, little stress, a lot of flexibility, very strong job security, easily impressed management), but...well, if I could make 250k working remote, I'd strongly consider it. My experience with interviewing with coastal companies for remote positions is they were adamant about basing my salary on what I currently make + x%; my impression is that by hiring remotely they thought they could get a deal. I ended up leveraging this into a counteroffer, so I still came out ahead, but I'm not really interested in risking my intangibles for just a few bucks.