4 ms·

It'll probably never happen, but we should look into solving the technical debt in our communications infrastructure – even if breaking backward-compatibility .

by eivarv 6y ago

It'll probably never happen, but we should look into solving the technical debt in our communications infrastructure – even if breaking backward-compatibility . Huge issues and vulnerabilities wrt security and privacy that are probably solvable, but were never considered in the first place.

g_p 6y ago
I think there's a growing acceptance that SS7 is a protocol from the past. It's based on a set of assumptions (around telecoms operators being trustworthy) that just never held true. The problem is that it continues to be the lowest common denominator for a lot of the world to stay connected from a telecoms perspective. Moving to newer protocols makes a lot of sense, but for much of the developing world I imagine they'll continue to rely on legacy technologies like SS7 for some time to come, as they have that hardware in place etc. The driver away from legacy equipment in the West will likely be the skills shortage as engineers retire and there's a need to move to newer equipment that can be maintained and understood. There's enough of a shortage of new talent, let alone new talent that understands the old telecoms world way of thinking.
- mschuster91 6y ago
  > The problem is that it continues to be the lowest common denominator for a lot of the world to stay connected from a telecoms perspective. Not just the developing world. The amount of money needed to rebuild our current telco grids with modern, designed from scratch infrastructure is in the hundreds of billions of euros range - in a time where money is short in supply. Personally, I believe that even in 2030 there will still be widespread 2G networks as "last fallback" for generations-old IoT devices that simply can't do anything else...
  - varispeed 6y ago
    Do you think that bandwidth heavy apps and sites should chip in? If we didn't use so much bandwidth we could easily stay with 3G? So it seems like because companies built these video sites and now everyone wants to have access to them in their pocket, why should telecom companies invest in it?
    - jaywalk 6y ago
      Telecom companies should invest in it because it's what their customers want. Your thinking is completely backwards.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
  - legulere 6y ago
    Switzerland already phased out 2G and so did others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Phase-out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Phase-out Some countries have the strategy of phasing out 3G instead.
  - Rexxar 6y ago
    Can we really say that money is in short supply when there are negative interest rates in lots of countries ?
  - MrRadar 6y ago
    In the US by 2030 both 2G and 3G will be a distant memory. AT&T shut down its 2G GSM network at the end of 2016 and intends to shut down its 3G network early next year. Verizon intended to shut down its 2G and 3G CDMA networks at the end of last year but delayed to the end of next year. T-Mobile US is operating its 2G GSM network entirely within the guard bands of its 3G UMTS service (which means the bandwidth available is extremely limited) and while they haven't specified a set date for shutting down their 2G and 3G service they are no longer investing in expanding it (see the difference between their 3G[1] and 4G[2] coverage maps) and I don't see it lasting significantly longer than AT&T's or Verizon's 2G/3G networks. Following the T-Mobile acquisition, the entire Sprint legacy network (2G, 3G, and 4G LTE) is going to be shut down by the end of this year with all customers being transferred to the T-Mobile network. Dish Wireless's new cellular network (which is being built out as part of the legal settlement that permitted the T-Mobile/Sprint merger) will be entirely 5G from the start with no 2G, 3G, or 4G service offered. [1] https://maps.t-mobile.com/pcc.html?map=mvno-noroam-34 https://maps.t-mobile.com/pcc.html?map=mvno-noroam-34 [2] https://maps.t-mobile.com/pcc.html?map=mvno-noroam-34l https://maps.t-mobile.com/pcc.html?map=mvno-noroam-34l
  - monadic3 6y ago
    Money is never in short supply. That's the entire point of fiat currency.
- KaiserPro 6y ago
  > Moving to newer protocols makes a lot of sense, but for much of the developing world I imagine they'll continue to rely on legacy technologies like SS7 for some time to come, as they have that hardware in place etc. SS7 is going to be here for a loooong time yet, just like email hasn't died. > The driver away from legacy equipment in the West Most of the cell towers that are install in the EU are Software defined. Its far cheaper and future proof to have them programmable. Most other legacy stuff has been ripped out years ago, its far cheaper to maintain one fibre link than 15 ATM lines. Older kit eats power, which means for remote cell cites, more fuel. This costs money, so its cheaper to rip out and put newer power efficient kit in.

by eivarv 6y ago

g_p 6y ago

I think there's a growing acceptance that SS7 is a protocol from the past. It's based on a set of assumptions (around telecoms operators being trustworthy) that just never held true. The problem is that it continues to be the lowest common denominator for a lot of the world to stay connected from a telecoms perspective. Moving to newer protocols makes a lot of sense, but for much of the developing world I imagine they'll continue to rely on legacy technologies like SS7 for some time to come, as they have that hardware in place etc. The driver away from legacy equipment in the West will likely be the skills shortage as engineers retire and there's a need to move to newer equipment that can be maintained and understood. There's enough of a shortage of new talent, let alone new talent that understands the old telecoms world way of thinking.

mschuster91 6y ago
> The problem is that it continues to be the lowest common denominator for a lot of the world to stay connected from a telecoms perspective. Not just the developing world. The amount of money needed to rebuild our current telco grids with modern, designed from scratch infrastructure is in the hundreds of billions of euros range - in a time where money is short in supply. Personally, I believe that even in 2030 there will still be widespread 2G networks as "last fallback" for generations-old IoT devices that simply can't do anything else...
- varispeed 6y ago
  Do you think that bandwidth heavy apps and sites should chip in? If we didn't use so much bandwidth we could easily stay with 3G? So it seems like because companies built these video sites and now everyone wants to have access to them in their pocket, why should telecom companies invest in it?
  - jaywalk 6y ago
    Telecom companies should invest in it because it's what their customers want. Your thinking is completely backwards.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- legulere 6y ago
  Switzerland already phased out 2G and so did others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Phase-out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2G#Phase-out Some countries have the strategy of phasing out 3G instead.
- Rexxar 6y ago
  Can we really say that money is in short supply when there are negative interest rates in lots of countries ?
- MrRadar 6y ago
  In the US by 2030 both 2G and 3G will be a distant memory. AT&T shut down its 2G GSM network at the end of 2016 and intends to shut down its 3G network early next year. Verizon intended to shut down its 2G and 3G CDMA networks at the end of last year but delayed to the end of next year. T-Mobile US is operating its 2G GSM network entirely within the guard bands of its 3G UMTS service (which means the bandwidth available is extremely limited) and while they haven't specified a set date for shutting down their 2G and 3G service they are no longer investing in expanding it (see the difference between their 3G[1] and 4G[2] coverage maps) and I don't see it lasting significantly longer than AT&T's or Verizon's 2G/3G networks. Following the T-Mobile acquisition, the entire Sprint legacy network (2G, 3G, and 4G LTE) is going to be shut down by the end of this year with all customers being transferred to the T-Mobile network. Dish Wireless's new cellular network (which is being built out as part of the legal settlement that permitted the T-Mobile/Sprint merger) will be entirely 5G from the start with no 2G, 3G, or 4G service offered. [1] https://maps.t-mobile.com/pcc.html?map=mvno-noroam-34 https://maps.t-mobile.com/pcc.html?map=mvno-noroam-34 [2] https://maps.t-mobile.com/pcc.html?map=mvno-noroam-34l https://maps.t-mobile.com/pcc.html?map=mvno-noroam-34l
- monadic3 6y ago
  Money is never in short supply. That's the entire point of fiat currency.
KaiserPro 6y ago
> Moving to newer protocols makes a lot of sense, but for much of the developing world I imagine they'll continue to rely on legacy technologies like SS7 for some time to come, as they have that hardware in place etc. SS7 is going to be here for a loooong time yet, just like email hasn't died. > The driver away from legacy equipment in the West Most of the cell towers that are install in the EU are Software defined. Its far cheaper and future proof to have them programmable. Most other legacy stuff has been ripped out years ago, its far cheaper to maintain one fibre link than 15 ATM lines. Older kit eats power, which means for remote cell cites, more fuel. This costs money, so its cheaper to rip out and put newer power efficient kit in.