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The thing is that the "home first" movement in Finland states that home isn't a trophy that you get once you fix your life. Home and food is essential to get yo

The thing is that the "home first" movement in Finland states that home isn't a trophy that you get once you fix your life. Home and food is essential to get your life on track, and home is given even for alcoholic people. But if they don't pay their rent, and even give up on social welfare to pay the rent for you, what can you do?

agumonkey 6y ago
I think it's unrelated, people like that are not ready to function 'normally', they need a shelter, asylum, hospital. It's an emotional problem more than material.
- Cloudef 6y ago
  If they don't cause harm to other people, you can't really force them or tell them they are living their life wrong.
  - js8 6y ago
    You can show them though, get them to talk to other people who have been in a similar situation, have been helped out of it, and have now a better life.
    - Cloudef 6y ago
      Note that, these kind of people are very rare. I can assure everyone gets all the help they can get. But these kind of extreme cases, usually have no drive to live their life other way, and you can do little to change them. There is very little homeless in Finland in reality, and it's one of the first things that always rubs me wrong overseas when I see homeless on the street. Seeing homeless on the street in Finland is not _normal_.
  - agumonkey 6y ago
    You're very contrarian it seems and that's annoying.
- chongli 6y ago
  There are other approaches to treating people with drug and alcohol addictions than trying to get them to quit. One is harm reduction. This has most famously been used to help people with IV drug addictions, in the form of safe injection sites. It can also be used for alcoholism: you provide a bar-like setting where people can go to get free drinks (rationed and served on a schedule by a trained server) and also socialize. If this is coupled with free housing, food, medical care, and therapy, it stands a good chance of helping people where involuntary hospitalization might have failed. I’ve volunteered serving free meals to homeless people in a restaurant style setting. People get their choice of appetizer, entree, salad, and dessert. Volunteers wait tables and then sit down to eat with people at the end of their shift. I’ve had some amazing conversations with people who have all kinds of experiences to share. It’s amazing how much of a difference it makes when you treat people like a person rather than a problem to solve.
  - Jackypot 6y ago
    I don't necessarily disagree, and have no expertise on the subject. But skip to any part of this (excellent) documentary about a 'wethouse' (basically what you describe, a place for homeless alcoholics to live, drink and socialise) and you'll see abject chaos, violence, misery at every turn. It's probably better than the streets, but not by much. https://youtu.be/MF5wNsfKo84 https://youtu.be/MF5wNsfKo84
tomjen3 6y ago
You can make public housing rent-free for formerly homeless and then decrease the social welfare amount.

agumonkey 6y ago

I think it's unrelated, people like that are not ready to function 'normally', they need a shelter, asylum, hospital. It's an emotional problem more than material.

Cloudef 6y ago
If they don't cause harm to other people, you can't really force them or tell them they are living their life wrong.
- js8 6y ago
  You can show them though, get them to talk to other people who have been in a similar situation, have been helped out of it, and have now a better life.
  - Cloudef 6y ago
    Note that, these kind of people are very rare. I can assure everyone gets all the help they can get. But these kind of extreme cases, usually have no drive to live their life other way, and you can do little to change them. There is very little homeless in Finland in reality, and it's one of the first things that always rubs me wrong overseas when I see homeless on the street. Seeing homeless on the street in Finland is not _normal_.
- agumonkey 6y ago
  You're very contrarian it seems and that's annoying.
chongli 6y ago
There are other approaches to treating people with drug and alcohol addictions than trying to get them to quit. One is harm reduction. This has most famously been used to help people with IV drug addictions, in the form of safe injection sites. It can also be used for alcoholism: you provide a bar-like setting where people can go to get free drinks (rationed and served on a schedule by a trained server) and also socialize. If this is coupled with free housing, food, medical care, and therapy, it stands a good chance of helping people where involuntary hospitalization might have failed. I’ve volunteered serving free meals to homeless people in a restaurant style setting. People get their choice of appetizer, entree, salad, and dessert. Volunteers wait tables and then sit down to eat with people at the end of their shift. I’ve had some amazing conversations with people who have all kinds of experiences to share. It’s amazing how much of a difference it makes when you treat people like a person rather than a problem to solve.
- Jackypot 6y ago
  I don't necessarily disagree, and have no expertise on the subject. But skip to any part of this (excellent) documentary about a 'wethouse' (basically what you describe, a place for homeless alcoholics to live, drink and socialise) and you'll see abject chaos, violence, misery at every turn. It's probably better than the streets, but not by much. https://youtu.be/MF5wNsfKo84 https://youtu.be/MF5wNsfKo84

tomjen3 6y ago

You can make public housing rent-free for formerly homeless and then decrease the social welfare amount.