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Homelessness does not beget homelessness. It is most important to note that. Our society is so focused at solving the primary symptoms without ever diving deepe

Homelessness does not beget homelessness. It is most important to note that. Our society is so focused at solving the primary symptoms without ever diving deeper into the root cause of things like this (looking at you Sf). To experience homelessness one must have first experienced a reason to now be homeless. In modern western society we have many failsafes that prevent people from becoming totally dislodged from a place of shelter. But more and more people are losing such shelter and are ending up on our streets. Why? The answer is often rooted in the human condition. Solving that is almost impossible... but it’s worth trying.

Synaesthesia 6y ago
It should be pretty elementary to solve homelessness, as Finland has shown. There's also no reason we can't have full employment. The Soviet Union had it.
- grumple 6y ago
  The USSR ran enterprises at a loss and kept workers idle though. And then their economy and government collapsed. Not exactly a recipe for success.
- itake 6y ago
  I’ve lived in LA, SF, and Boulder. Most of the homeless in these cities are not interested in being apart of society. They are perfectly happy with their lifestyle of mental health and drug addictions. Yes, there is a minority of homeless struggling to rejoin society, but the (pardon verbiage) worst people have no interest or empathy for society.
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    You're already coming across as very judgmental of these people. Have you actually talked to them? Do you know why they prefer their lifestyle? I mean you just implied that mental health is a lifestyle or addiction (??? maybe check your phrasing), and that drug addiction is a lifestyle choice instead of e.g. a coping mechanism because society failed them.
    - itake 6y ago
      > Have you actually talked to them? yes. Everyone has their own story. Checkout these interviews on Youtube: LA - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ZFzEW7_Q4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ZFzEW7_Q4 Seattle - https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw?t=877 https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw?t=877 The homeless I talked with in Boulder romanticize camping forever along the creeks and being free from society, while trying to leach off of public services. > Do you know why they prefer their lifestyle? Drug addiction, mental health, and in some cases lack of family support. > that drug addiction is a lifestyle choice Drug addiction is a choice. Based on my very limited personal experiences, you gotta commit to making a change (see above videos). Many addicts just aren't ready to leave their vices for a better life. No amount of rehab will help someone if they aren't ready to commit to a change. > society failed them. Sorry if this sounds conservative, but trying to blame other people for your problems doesn't really get you any where. Society throws problems at everyone, some more than others. Laying around complaining or rejecting it doesn't improve anyone's situation. People need to apply critical thinking skills and tackle their own issues (hence the need for an addict needing to commit to the idea of solving the problem of their addiction). Ex-homeless/addicts getting together to correct "society failed" them problems via AA meetings is an excellent example of people that apply critical thinking skills and try to help.
      - watwut 6y ago
        > Sorry if this sounds conservative, but trying to blame other people for your problems doesn't really get you any where. The person you are responding to is not homeless and is not talking about own problems at all. Much less blaming own homeless problem on somebody else. Instead, he is someone who is trying to talk about strategies people like him, non homeless people, can push for so that other peoples chance to become homeless is smaller. Basically, compete opposite of your accusation.
  - porb121 6y ago
    > Most of the homeless in these cities are not interested in being apart of society maybe they are not interested in being a part of our society because of how our society is organized, and if we changed our societal structure, they would be more willing or able to participate.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Woop, there's the "socialism is a slippery slope to communism" argument.
  - collyw 6y ago
    Isn't socialism supposed to be the stepping stone to communism (but usually ends up in totalitarianism instead)?
    - dragonwriter 6y ago
      > Isn't socialism supposed to be the stepping stone to communism The “socialism” stage of Marxist Communism, which in Leninist practice (which differs sharply from the dictates of Marxism from which it was adapted, but shares this and some other elements of theory) is totalitarianism (not a stepping stone to it) is supposed to be a stepping stone to the perfected end state in that theoretical framework. But neither the Marxist nor especially the Leninist form of that is the same thing as the “socialism” pursued by non-Marxist socialists, and in non-Marxist socialism there's no consistent role of socialism as a stepping stone to something else, whether utopian Communism or some other end-state.
    - watwut 6y ago
      No. Communism was supposed to be abrupt revolution and transformation. The democratic socialism was seen as enemy, because it made people calmer, happier and less likely to commit to revolution.
user-the-name 6y ago
Actually the answer is much more often rooted in capitalism, which is a lot easier to solve.
offtop5 6y ago
I'll say this as someone who's been evicted twice, the number one reason the vast majority of people end up homeless is because they don't have money. This can happen for a small array of reasons, let's say you're in a bad marriage and your spouse leaves. You simply can't make the rent anymore, you're now homeless. 19 years old, and you're getting into really bad fights with your parents, you're now homeless. Develop a medical issue in your mid-30s which prevents you from working, you're now homeless. In my fantasy world we wouldn't even have evictions, instead a social worker would advise you that you're legally entitled to effectively a dorm of some sort. >In modern western society we have many failsafes that prevent people from becoming totally dislodged from a place of shelter. You're kidding right, when you're released from prison they give you 20 bucks. Awful hard to find housing with $20 you know, especially when you have a criminal record. A ton of people did do things which warranted a sentence, but we make no effort to reintegrate these people. So you did something bad when you were 20, you being 35 years old out on the streets without any hope isn't healing anything. If anything at all you're much more likely to resort to another crime of desperation.
- jariel 6y ago
  I think there are generally accepted to be 2 categories - those that fall out temporarily and the long term homeless. Your situation is more the former. It's really common and that's what basic safety nets are for. The longer term folks - serious drug addiction, mental illness, excessive abuse etc. etc. - those are the harder cases.
  - offtop5 6y ago
    >Your situation is more the former. It's really common and that's what basic safety nets are for. Like a 10 year Section 8 waiting list ? Sorry for the snark, but no social safety net really exist in America. If you don't have a place to go, you don't have it. In many states if you don't have kids you can't get effective aid. And even with you can still end up sleeping in a car .
    - jariel 6y ago
iSnow 6y ago
>Homelessness does not beget homelessness. It is most important to note that But is this really a fact? I agree with your later reasoning that homelessness is a symptom of deeper problems, but I'd argue that our societies should have one more failsafe in place: housing for the homeless. I've never been sleeping rough, but I'd think it would be pretty traumatic. This would kick some into seeking help, but would make others fail even more.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
> In modern western society we have many failsafes The US called, they want you to pay your hospital bills. Or when it comes to SF, rent.
porb121 6y ago
> In modern western society we have many failsafes that prevent people from becoming totally dislodged from a place of shelter. the US has much weaker social safety nets, and the ones it does have are often conditional on applications or proof of work. to say solving homelessness is almost impossible when US homelessness is orders of magnitude worse than countries like Finland's is nonsensical

Synaesthesia 6y ago

It should be pretty elementary to solve homelessness, as Finland has shown. There's also no reason we can't have full employment. The Soviet Union had it.

grumple 6y ago
The USSR ran enterprises at a loss and kept workers idle though. And then their economy and government collapsed. Not exactly a recipe for success.
itake 6y ago
I’ve lived in LA, SF, and Boulder. Most of the homeless in these cities are not interested in being apart of society. They are perfectly happy with their lifestyle of mental health and drug addictions. Yes, there is a minority of homeless struggling to rejoin society, but the (pardon verbiage) worst people have no interest or empathy for society.
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  You're already coming across as very judgmental of these people. Have you actually talked to them? Do you know why they prefer their lifestyle? I mean you just implied that mental health is a lifestyle or addiction (??? maybe check your phrasing), and that drug addiction is a lifestyle choice instead of e.g. a coping mechanism because society failed them.
  - itake 6y ago
    > Have you actually talked to them? yes. Everyone has their own story. Checkout these interviews on Youtube: LA - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ZFzEW7_Q4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6ZFzEW7_Q4 Seattle - https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw?t=877 https://youtu.be/bpAi70WWBlw?t=877 The homeless I talked with in Boulder romanticize camping forever along the creeks and being free from society, while trying to leach off of public services. > Do you know why they prefer their lifestyle? Drug addiction, mental health, and in some cases lack of family support. > that drug addiction is a lifestyle choice Drug addiction is a choice. Based on my very limited personal experiences, you gotta commit to making a change (see above videos). Many addicts just aren't ready to leave their vices for a better life. No amount of rehab will help someone if they aren't ready to commit to a change. > society failed them. Sorry if this sounds conservative, but trying to blame other people for your problems doesn't really get you any where. Society throws problems at everyone, some more than others. Laying around complaining or rejecting it doesn't improve anyone's situation. People need to apply critical thinking skills and tackle their own issues (hence the need for an addict needing to commit to the idea of solving the problem of their addiction). Ex-homeless/addicts getting together to correct "society failed" them problems via AA meetings is an excellent example of people that apply critical thinking skills and try to help.
    - watwut 6y ago
      > Sorry if this sounds conservative, but trying to blame other people for your problems doesn't really get you any where. The person you are responding to is not homeless and is not talking about own problems at all. Much less blaming own homeless problem on somebody else. Instead, he is someone who is trying to talk about strategies people like him, non homeless people, can push for so that other peoples chance to become homeless is smaller. Basically, compete opposite of your accusation.
- porb121 6y ago
  > Most of the homeless in these cities are not interested in being apart of society maybe they are not interested in being a part of our society because of how our society is organized, and if we changed our societal structure, they would be more willing or able to participate.
Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Woop, there's the "socialism is a slippery slope to communism" argument.
- collyw 6y ago
  Isn't socialism supposed to be the stepping stone to communism (but usually ends up in totalitarianism instead)?
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Isn't socialism supposed to be the stepping stone to communism The “socialism” stage of Marxist Communism, which in Leninist practice (which differs sharply from the dictates of Marxism from which it was adapted, but shares this and some other elements of theory) is totalitarianism (not a stepping stone to it) is supposed to be a stepping stone to the perfected end state in that theoretical framework. But neither the Marxist nor especially the Leninist form of that is the same thing as the “socialism” pursued by non-Marxist socialists, and in non-Marxist socialism there's no consistent role of socialism as a stepping stone to something else, whether utopian Communism or some other end-state.
  - watwut 6y ago
    No. Communism was supposed to be abrupt revolution and transformation. The democratic socialism was seen as enemy, because it made people calmer, happier and less likely to commit to revolution.

user-the-name 6y ago

Actually the answer is much more often rooted in capitalism, which is a lot easier to solve.

offtop5 6y ago

I'll say this as someone who's been evicted twice, the number one reason the vast majority of people end up homeless is because they don't have money. This can happen for a small array of reasons, let's say you're in a bad marriage and your spouse leaves. You simply can't make the rent anymore, you're now homeless. 19 years old, and you're getting into really bad fights with your parents, you're now homeless. Develop a medical issue in your mid-30s which prevents you from working, you're now homeless. In my fantasy world we wouldn't even have evictions, instead a social worker would advise you that you're legally entitled to effectively a dorm of some sort. >In modern western society we have many failsafes that prevent people from becoming totally dislodged from a place of shelter. You're kidding right, when you're released from prison they give you 20 bucks. Awful hard to find housing with $20 you know, especially when you have a criminal record. A ton of people did do things which warranted a sentence, but we make no effort to reintegrate these people. So you did something bad when you were 20, you being 35 years old out on the streets without any hope isn't healing anything. If anything at all you're much more likely to resort to another crime of desperation.

jariel 6y ago
I think there are generally accepted to be 2 categories - those that fall out temporarily and the long term homeless. Your situation is more the former. It's really common and that's what basic safety nets are for. The longer term folks - serious drug addiction, mental illness, excessive abuse etc. etc. - those are the harder cases.
- offtop5 6y ago
  >Your situation is more the former. It's really common and that's what basic safety nets are for. Like a 10 year Section 8 waiting list ? Sorry for the snark, but no social safety net really exist in America. If you don't have a place to go, you don't have it. In many states if you don't have kids you can't get effective aid. And even with you can still end up sleeping in a car .
  - jariel 6y ago

iSnow 6y ago

>Homelessness does not beget homelessness. It is most important to note that But is this really a fact? I agree with your later reasoning that homelessness is a symptom of deeper problems, but I'd argue that our societies should have one more failsafe in place: housing for the homeless. I've never been sleeping rough, but I'd think it would be pretty traumatic. This would kick some into seeking help, but would make others fail even more.

Cthulhu_ 6y ago

> In modern western society we have many failsafes The US called, they want you to pay your hospital bills. Or when it comes to SF, rent.

porb121 6y ago

> In modern western society we have many failsafes that prevent people from becoming totally dislodged from a place of shelter. the US has much weaker social safety nets, and the ones it does have are often conditional on applications or proof of work. to say solving homelessness is almost impossible when US homelessness is orders of magnitude worse than countries like Finland's is nonsensical