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Odd..I live in AZ and local news is reporting the Fab at $12B, and the total project at $38B over 20 years (including 2K new jobs(1)(2) also, they want to have

Odd..I live in AZ and local news is reporting the Fab at $12B, and the total project at $38B over 20 years (including 2K new jobs(1)(2) also, they want to have it production ready by 2024, which seems incredibly tight timeline. My understanding is even the air handlers have to run for like 6 months before production can start. Anyway, I'm hoping this will give the local economy a nice post-covid boost. 1: https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/taiwan-semiconductor-launches-38b-phoenix-presence-by-signing-major-lease/ https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/taiwan-semiconductor-laun... 2: https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4089176 https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4089176 edit: formating

jraby3 6y ago
From the article: A $12 Billion Plan "Approved an investment to establish a wholly-owned subsidiary in Arizona, United States of America, with a paid-in capital of US$3.5 billion (approximately NT$99.75 billion)," the statement by TSMC reads.
- mech422 6y ago
  From the first article I linked above: "a new North Phoenix manufacturing facility and up to 1,900 new local jobs over a five-year period. With an estimated 20-year economic impact of $38.2 billion, TSMC represents Arizona’s largest-ever foreign direct investment." From the second article I linked above: "ahead of its planned US$12 billion wafer fab north of the city. " So there seems to be some confusion... Edit: ahh the OP seems to be referring to just the first payments. The Toms Hardware article goes on to say: "In total, TSMC plans to spend $12 billion on its fab in Arizona from 2021 to 2029. The factory will employ about 1,600 people directly and thousands more indirectly." Edit: add quote from first link
supernova87a 6y ago
Well, the problem with these factory $ value figures (and I wish reporters would dig a little deeper) is that it doesn't really correctly depict the impact to the local economy very well. Either in the construction phase or ongoing operations phase. In some ways the construction is little different than building an office park or warehouse, modulo some very special installed equipment and ventilation / power systems. Most of that $xB capital invested is going to the companies that make the extremely sophisticated line equipment, and that is not local. As for the operations phase, it might employ 1,000 people, optimistically? Not saying it's not a benefit to the Arizona economy. And certainly the economic calculations for something like this are far better than the bullshit $ thrown around for a sport stadium or team, for example. Just saying that the $12-$38B figure is not what Arizonans will feel.
- mech422 6y ago
  yeah - there will definitely be a huge equipment budget. But the construction work will be substantial as well. I have a friend that's doing pipe fitting at the Intel plant, and he's looking at being booked solid for like the next 5 years. Not to mention all the road improvements, etc. the local municipalities have committed to. I believe they're predicting more like 2K jobs for the operations phase. Though, the 2019 phoenix economic output was about 260 billion. So even the full 1 billion / year is just a half percent increase. Still I'm optimistic this can help PHX recover from the covid slump, and start getting the local economy back on track.
- csomar 6y ago
  Long term, however, it'll attract high-yield jobs. These jobs (and the people working on them) will have a high impact on employment. People who have high salaries can afford eating out regularly, Uber/Uber Eats and expensive custom made stuff. This helps the lower strata of society.
  - mywittyname 6y ago
    They also demand better schools and have kids who largely end up being educated and are anchored to the region.

jraby3 6y ago

From the article: A $12 Billion Plan "Approved an investment to establish a wholly-owned subsidiary in Arizona, United States of America, with a paid-in capital of US$3.5 billion (approximately NT$99.75 billion)," the statement by TSMC reads.

mech422 6y ago
From the first article I linked above: "a new North Phoenix manufacturing facility and up to 1,900 new local jobs over a five-year period. With an estimated 20-year economic impact of $38.2 billion, TSMC represents Arizona’s largest-ever foreign direct investment." From the second article I linked above: "ahead of its planned US$12 billion wafer fab north of the city. " So there seems to be some confusion... Edit: ahh the OP seems to be referring to just the first payments. The Toms Hardware article goes on to say: "In total, TSMC plans to spend $12 billion on its fab in Arizona from 2021 to 2029. The factory will employ about 1,600 people directly and thousands more indirectly." Edit: add quote from first link

supernova87a 6y ago

Well, the problem with these factory $ value figures (and I wish reporters would dig a little deeper) is that it doesn't really correctly depict the impact to the local economy very well. Either in the construction phase or ongoing operations phase. In some ways the construction is little different than building an office park or warehouse, modulo some very special installed equipment and ventilation / power systems. Most of that $xB capital invested is going to the companies that make the extremely sophisticated line equipment, and that is not local. As for the operations phase, it might employ 1,000 people, optimistically? Not saying it's not a benefit to the Arizona economy. And certainly the economic calculations for something like this are far better than the bullshit $ thrown around for a sport stadium or team, for example. Just saying that the $12-$38B figure is not what Arizonans will feel.

mech422 6y ago
yeah - there will definitely be a huge equipment budget. But the construction work will be substantial as well. I have a friend that's doing pipe fitting at the Intel plant, and he's looking at being booked solid for like the next 5 years. Not to mention all the road improvements, etc. the local municipalities have committed to. I believe they're predicting more like 2K jobs for the operations phase. Though, the 2019 phoenix economic output was about 260 billion. So even the full 1 billion / year is just a half percent increase. Still I'm optimistic this can help PHX recover from the covid slump, and start getting the local economy back on track.
csomar 6y ago
Long term, however, it'll attract high-yield jobs. These jobs (and the people working on them) will have a high impact on employment. People who have high salaries can afford eating out regularly, Uber/Uber Eats and expensive custom made stuff. This helps the lower strata of society.
- mywittyname 6y ago
  They also demand better schools and have kids who largely end up being educated and are anchored to the region.