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Electric car sales are up in Germany by similar amounts. Completely without any force applied. The same in many European countries.
by _ph_ 6y ago
Electric car sales are up in Germany by similar amounts. Completely without any force applied. The same in many European countries.
- clouddrover 6y agoCar companies must meet the EU fleet emissions standards and the only way most car companies will achieve that is by selling BEVs. Volkswagen and Renault are the top two BEV makers in Europe. Toyota is in a good position with their fleet emissions because they've been selling hybrids for so long. They're not under as much pressure to start selling BEVs in high volumes.
- tonyedgecombe 6y agoIt looks to me that Toyota has thrown away a huge advantage. Thet could have had an early lead with their experience with hybrids.
- clouddrover 6y agoIt probably won't matter that much. Toyota will start offering BEVs in large volumes eventually. They'll be Toyotas with a different powertrain.
- _ph_ 6y agoYes, the emission standards have forced the car manufacturers to offer electric cars. But how does it explain that customers are buying them? Even so much that there are long waiting times when you order an electric car. The answer is: there are enough customers interested in buying an electric cars but both the available product range and production count limited their ability to do so. With the offerings of electric cars improving, the consumers are happily buying into them.
- konschubert 6y agoThe car makers are taking a loss/low margin on BEVs sales . Pricing is tuned such that they can sell enough BEVs to meet the regulated fleet efficiency, but no more than that.
- _ph_ 6y agoWhich only means that the customer is of course taking the price into account when buying new cars. As the production costs of electric cars are coming down considerably (manufacturing scaling, battery costs), the prices are coming down and very soon there will be the same margin as with petrol cars. Never mention Tesla, who don't have the problem of compensating their ICE car emissions.
- fomine3 6y agoEU CAFE regulation virtually increases (not efficient) ICE car price and decreases EV car price.
- tonyedgecombe 6y agoI'm not sure that is the whole picture. VW in particular seems to be betting the company on electric.
- throwawayzRUU6f 6y agoYour first and second paragraph contradict each other. Even though Toyota doesn't offer a single BEV in their lineup, they are completely fine with the stricter emission standards. Nobody is forcing anyone to sell BEVs, what is forced is efficiency. Full BEV is only one way to achieve that goal. Look at Hyundai Ioniq hybrid - a perfectly capable midsize family car, affordable, introduced to the market in 2017. It will meet emission standards all the way until 2029.
- Reason077 6y agoToyota now sells the full-electric Lexus UX 300e in Europe, so it’s no longer true that they “don’t offer a single BEV”.
- dagurp 6y agoThe specs of that car suggest that they want it to fail. It's not competitive to the EVs out there and is too expensive.
- Reason077 6y agoYou may well be right. But they do offer a single EV!
- clouddrover 6y agoAnd more to follow: https://electrek.co/2020/12/07/toyota-electric-suv-battery-electric-cars/ https://electrek.co/2020/12/07/toyota-electric-suv-battery-e...
- bartvk 6y agoIt has a bit more range as my Renault Zoe. Which is now 4 years old. It feels to me that this Lexus is nothing more than a compliance car.
- clouddrover 6y agoI'm talking about the targets for emissions across the entire fleet, not for the emissions of individual models. Volkswagen must sell BEVs to meet its fleet emissions standards. Unfortunately for them, they missed their 2020 target so they will be paying a fine: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKBN29Q1JI https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUS... Volkswagen doesn't want to waste money on fines so they've made a big commitment to EVs. They've become the biggest BEV maker in Europe and in time they'll be the biggest BEV maker world wide, which isn't that surprising. Volkswagen owns 12 automotive brands and they're the world's biggest car company.
- hardlianotion 6y agoWhat is a BEV. Had a quick scan, but can’t see a definition. (Edit) Battery Electric Vehicle
- konschubert 6y agoTo be fair there are heavy subsidies for electric cars in Germany.
- neuronic 6y agoThey existed years ago and I am skeptical that they are significant enough to make the average person even consider a new electric car. They are still too expensive for what they offer, even with heavy subsidies. However, what I do see in Germany, are more and more electric cars in car sharing, rentals and company fleets. Upper middle class is going pretty electric as well to appear cool/caring about climate. Several Teslas in front of my building now since the new upper middle class apartments went up across the street. Several Audi e-Trons in the area as well. What's curiously missing is the ID.3 somehow - I expected to see many more at this point. Volkswagen and many other well-known manufacturers are pushing out really decent electric models. I see a ton of Renault Zoes cruising around, electric Smarts as well. They simply fit well into the European market which is dominated by dense cities and short commutes (<100km).
- hobofan 6y ago> They are still too expensive for what they offer, even with heavy subsidies. > Renault Zoes In Berlin, Renault Zoes were (maybe still are?) _free_[0] to get for small businesses. I know multiple freelancers who took advantage of that deal. Yes, that might not be the "average person", but it's probably not insignificant either. [0]: https://efahrer.chip.de/news/elektroauto-gratis-leasen-so-kommen-sie-an-ihre-kostenlose-zoe_101415 https://efahrer.chip.de/news/elektroauto-gratis-leasen-so-ko...
- Reason077 6y agoYes, right now electric vehicles are certainly an "upper middle class" thing. But that's largely because EVs are still new and the "average" person just can't afford to buy a brand new car every few years. However, in 5-10 years we should start to see a mature market for good quality used EVs, making them much more accessible. At that point, better reliability, better driving experience, much lower operating costs, etc will make EVs the obvious choice for many, if not most, buyers.
- Reason077 6y agoThere is “force being applied” in the form of EU fleet-wide emissions requirements. Automakers must sell increasing numbers of full electric and/or hybrid vehicles in order to meet their emissions targets, otherwise they face potentially huge fines.
- _ph_ 6y agoThis can only force the auto makers to make electric cars attractive, but the customer does have a choice and chooses more electric cars.
- patrickk 6y agohttps://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_en https://ec.europa.eu/clima/policies/transport/vehicles/cars_...
- fogetti 6y agoThis claim is completely false. As others pointed out the EU applies stricter and stricter emission regulations each year forcing all manufacturers to comply.