5 ms·

I think it will be really interesting to see what the residual value of the old battery will be. Could be really high- 50% original capacity is a problem for ca

by ip26 6y ago

I think it will be really interesting to see what the residual value of the old battery will be. Could be really high- 50% original capacity is a problem for cars but not for grid storage (if the price reflects remaining capacity)

rhodozelia 6y ago
50% capacity for energy storage might be ok for Home gamers but no utility scale project is going to spend all the money on permitting, construction and the rest of the power infrastructure and then get batteries that are beat up.
- phreeza 6y ago
  It's impossible to say without knowing actual prices and doing the math. If a profit can be made, most likely someone will do it.
  - rhodozelia 6y ago
    This is a good point, but I’m thinking a higher return will be earned with new batteries than used ones. I guess we’ll see in 10 years If there are utility scale grid storage with used batteries!
    - ip26 6y ago
      If everybody wrote off the used batteries, then the price of used batteries would be practically nothing. And then somebody would say, Gee, you mean I can buy 1MWh of old Nissan Leaf batteries for $1,000...? An application will be found, or they will be recycled, whichever has better economics.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  I fail to see how permitting, etc. has anything to do with battery capacity. The only thing that will matter is price per kWh of storage and if used batteries can be sourced, binned and serviced reliably.
  - rhodozelia 6y ago
    Reliably might be a key word there. The cost of the batteries is probably not a large component of the overall project cost which includes permitting, insurance, substation, inverters, labour, transportation of all of the above equipment. So to then cheap out and buy batteries that have half the life or half the density and probably greater risk of failure, Fire, higher insurance costs is not something I see people managing 50-150 million dollar projects sticking their neck Out to do to maybe save 10%? But then have lower reliability, more maintenance, and a complete replacement Of all the batteries coming in half the time as it would be with new ones.
0xB31B1B 6y ago
80% capacity is EOL for pretty much all batteries. Below that, you start to see issues with output. Its not like a tank of gas where 80% full still means you have 4/5ths of the power of a full tank available to you.
- ClumsyPilot 6y ago
  Could you expand on what you mean by that? I have a laptop battery thats at 60% and it still allows the machine to run full-tilt of battery. I also had drones and other equipment with degraded batteries.

by ip26 6y ago

rhodozelia 6y ago

50% capacity for energy storage might be ok for Home gamers but no utility scale project is going to spend all the money on permitting, construction and the rest of the power infrastructure and then get batteries that are beat up.

phreeza 6y ago
It's impossible to say without knowing actual prices and doing the math. If a profit can be made, most likely someone will do it.
- rhodozelia 6y ago
  This is a good point, but I’m thinking a higher return will be earned with new batteries than used ones. I guess we’ll see in 10 years If there are utility scale grid storage with used batteries!
  - ip26 6y ago
    If everybody wrote off the used batteries, then the price of used batteries would be practically nothing. And then somebody would say, Gee, you mean I can buy 1MWh of old Nissan Leaf batteries for $1,000...? An application will be found, or they will be recycled, whichever has better economics.
ClumsyPilot 6y ago
I fail to see how permitting, etc. has anything to do with battery capacity. The only thing that will matter is price per kWh of storage and if used batteries can be sourced, binned and serviced reliably.
- rhodozelia 6y ago
  Reliably might be a key word there. The cost of the batteries is probably not a large component of the overall project cost which includes permitting, insurance, substation, inverters, labour, transportation of all of the above equipment. So to then cheap out and buy batteries that have half the life or half the density and probably greater risk of failure, Fire, higher insurance costs is not something I see people managing 50-150 million dollar projects sticking their neck Out to do to maybe save 10%? But then have lower reliability, more maintenance, and a complete replacement Of all the batteries coming in half the time as it would be with new ones.

0xB31B1B 6y ago

80% capacity is EOL for pretty much all batteries. Below that, you start to see issues with output. Its not like a tank of gas where 80% full still means you have 4/5ths of the power of a full tank available to you.

ClumsyPilot 6y ago
Could you expand on what you mean by that? I have a laptop battery thats at 60% and it still allows the machine to run full-tilt of battery. I also had drones and other equipment with degraded batteries.