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Who's to say that we will ever reach that point? COVID-19 will be with us forever [1], which means that governments can forever point to it as a reason to push

Who's to say that we will ever reach that point? COVID-19 will be with us forever [1], which means that governments can forever point to it as a reason to push for increasingly oppressive restrictions. The economic meltdown resulting from these restrictions is pushing even the most capitalist countries much further onto the socialism spectrum than anyone could have imagined just a year ago. Some political parties view that as a positive outcome, regardless of how it was achieved. So as long as COVID can be used as a way to achieve long-standing political goals, there will be absolutely no political will to relax the restrictions, even as infection rates start to fall as a result of vaccinations. It will take serious pushback by the populace - people making it clear that incumbent politicians will lose their next elections unless restrictions are relaxed - to return to any sense of normalcy in a reasonable period of time. [1] https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2021/01/covid-19-will-likely-be-with-us-forever-heres-how-well-live-with-it/ https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2021/01/covid-19-...

farnsworth 6y ago
I wish I lived in your reality. Where somebody has a Plan and everything is going as it is supposed to. Unfortunately that is not true. The virus is real.
- downandout 6y ago
  I'm not sure how you could interpret that comment as saying the virus "isn't real". Of course it's real. I also don't think it was "planned," nor did I imply that. But it's certainly being exploited for political ends.
  - hanniabu 6y ago
    Exploited how?
    - downandout 6y ago
      My answer to that would garner yet more downvotes, which I am not interested in receiving. I already get auto-downvoted by several accounts on every comment I make. I assume you know the answer to the question you asked, and were just being argumentative, because the answer is quite obvious. But in case you really wanted to know, instead of answering directly, I'll point you to a few resources: 1) "For authoritarian-minded leaders, the coronavirus crisis is offering a convenient pretext to silence critics and consolidate power. Censorship in China and elsewhere has fed the pandemic, helping to turn a potentially containable threat into a global calamity. The health crisis will inevitably subside, but autocratic governments’ dangerous expansion of power may be one of the pandemic’s most enduring legacies." - https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/03/how-authoritarians-are-exploiting-covid-19-crisis-grab-power https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/03/how-authoritarians-are-e... 2) "The outbreak of Covid-19 and subsequent pandemic has led to an alarming uptick in authoritarian behavior by governments across the globe, who are using the crisis to silence critics, an open letter signed by more than 500 former world leaders and Nobel Laureates claims." - https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/europe/coronavirus-authoritarian-threat-open-letter-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/europe/coronavirus-authoritar... 3) "...as the crisis goes on, some leaders could order restrictive measures that make public health sense at the peak of the crisis and then extend them in the hope of quashing dissent once the disease declines....A harbinger of what is to come may have appeared in Hungary, where Prime Minister Viktor Orban asked parliament on 21 March to indefinitely extend a state of emergency that prescribes five-year prison sentences for those disseminating false information or obstructing the state’s crisis response." - https://www.crisisgroup.org/global/sb4-covid-19-and-conflict-seven-trends-watch https://www.crisisgroup.org/global/sb4-covid-19-and-conflict...
AngryData 6y ago
How are we being pushed into socialism and what policies being pushed are socialist? I don't see businesses being made public, nor do I see workers gaining any control over business or economic decisions.
- downandout 6y ago
  I said that we are being pushed onto the spectrum, not that we have become a socialist country. But COVID restrictions have forced millions of people out of work/business and into being entirely reliant on the government for money. When a substantial portion of the population is reliant on the government for money, the government must increase its own revenue, and it will come after those that still have an income for that money. Taxes will skyrocket, but that is unlikely to cover the shortfall, so we will also have to continue printing money at an increasing rate - devaluing our currency and the savings of those that are lucky enough to have any. Ultimately, having vast swaths of the population reliant on the government for money, food, and healthcare, with oppressive taxes for those who are lucky enough to be employed/in business, and a currency that is rapidly being devalued, is a pretty significant step on the road to socialism.
  - pertymcpert 6y ago
    The US has been doing that for decades, and inflation has never been out of control.
    - downandout 6y ago
      Not at the current level, much less that our new Administration is and will continue to push for.
diveanon 6y ago
Just say no to Q.
- downandout 6y ago
  What a terribly ignorant comment, but I suppose it is indicative of what HN has devolved into. 500 former world leaders and Nobel Laureates agree with me [1], but random Internet poster guy (along with all of the geniuses that downvoted my comments in this thread) thinks it’s out something straight out of Qanon. My source for that is undoubtedly one you implicitly trust...CNN. Not “Q”. Here is a direct quote from it: ”...the letter's chief warning is that countries with strong democratic traditions could use the pandemic to introduce extraordinary measures that in the long run become ordinary, doing permanent damage to global democracy...” You, and those who think and act like you, really should educate yourselves before you criticize things you apparently know absolutely nothing about. You guys are turning the Internet into a toxic place where discussion of undeniable facts, from your own news sources and in this case brought to light by a collection of 500 of the world’s most credible people, are dismissed as wild conspiracy theories - simply because those facts might call into question the motives of politicians you blindly support. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/europe/coronavirus-authoritarian-threat-open-letter-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/europe/coronavirus-authoritar...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]

farnsworth 6y ago

I wish I lived in your reality. Where somebody has a Plan and everything is going as it is supposed to. Unfortunately that is not true. The virus is real.

downandout 6y ago
I'm not sure how you could interpret that comment as saying the virus "isn't real". Of course it's real. I also don't think it was "planned," nor did I imply that. But it's certainly being exploited for political ends.
- hanniabu 6y ago
  Exploited how?
  - downandout 6y ago
    My answer to that would garner yet more downvotes, which I am not interested in receiving. I already get auto-downvoted by several accounts on every comment I make. I assume you know the answer to the question you asked, and were just being argumentative, because the answer is quite obvious. But in case you really wanted to know, instead of answering directly, I'll point you to a few resources: 1) "For authoritarian-minded leaders, the coronavirus crisis is offering a convenient pretext to silence critics and consolidate power. Censorship in China and elsewhere has fed the pandemic, helping to turn a potentially containable threat into a global calamity. The health crisis will inevitably subside, but autocratic governments’ dangerous expansion of power may be one of the pandemic’s most enduring legacies." - https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/03/how-authoritarians-are-exploiting-covid-19-crisis-grab-power https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/04/03/how-authoritarians-are-e... 2) "The outbreak of Covid-19 and subsequent pandemic has led to an alarming uptick in authoritarian behavior by governments across the globe, who are using the crisis to silence critics, an open letter signed by more than 500 former world leaders and Nobel Laureates claims." - https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/europe/coronavirus-authoritarian-threat-open-letter-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/europe/coronavirus-authoritar... 3) "...as the crisis goes on, some leaders could order restrictive measures that make public health sense at the peak of the crisis and then extend them in the hope of quashing dissent once the disease declines....A harbinger of what is to come may have appeared in Hungary, where Prime Minister Viktor Orban asked parliament on 21 March to indefinitely extend a state of emergency that prescribes five-year prison sentences for those disseminating false information or obstructing the state’s crisis response." - https://www.crisisgroup.org/global/sb4-covid-19-and-conflict-seven-trends-watch https://www.crisisgroup.org/global/sb4-covid-19-and-conflict...

AngryData 6y ago

How are we being pushed into socialism and what policies being pushed are socialist? I don't see businesses being made public, nor do I see workers gaining any control over business or economic decisions.

downandout 6y ago
I said that we are being pushed onto the spectrum, not that we have become a socialist country. But COVID restrictions have forced millions of people out of work/business and into being entirely reliant on the government for money. When a substantial portion of the population is reliant on the government for money, the government must increase its own revenue, and it will come after those that still have an income for that money. Taxes will skyrocket, but that is unlikely to cover the shortfall, so we will also have to continue printing money at an increasing rate - devaluing our currency and the savings of those that are lucky enough to have any. Ultimately, having vast swaths of the population reliant on the government for money, food, and healthcare, with oppressive taxes for those who are lucky enough to be employed/in business, and a currency that is rapidly being devalued, is a pretty significant step on the road to socialism.
- pertymcpert 6y ago
  The US has been doing that for decades, and inflation has never been out of control.
  - downandout 6y ago
    Not at the current level, much less that our new Administration is and will continue to push for.

diveanon 6y ago

Just say no to Q.

downandout 6y ago
What a terribly ignorant comment, but I suppose it is indicative of what HN has devolved into. 500 former world leaders and Nobel Laureates agree with me [1], but random Internet poster guy (along with all of the geniuses that downvoted my comments in this thread) thinks it’s out something straight out of Qanon. My source for that is undoubtedly one you implicitly trust...CNN. Not “Q”. Here is a direct quote from it: ”...the letter's chief warning is that countries with strong democratic traditions could use the pandemic to introduce extraordinary measures that in the long run become ordinary, doing permanent damage to global democracy...” You, and those who think and act like you, really should educate yourselves before you criticize things you apparently know absolutely nothing about. You guys are turning the Internet into a toxic place where discussion of undeniable facts, from your own news sources and in this case brought to light by a collection of 500 of the world’s most credible people, are dismissed as wild conspiracy theories - simply because those facts might call into question the motives of politicians you blindly support. [1] https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/europe/coronavirus-authoritarian-threat-open-letter-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/25/europe/coronavirus-authoritar...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]