3 ms·

Maybe the replacement battery will have better tech!

magicalhippo 6y ago
AFAIK the main problem with the Leaf battery is that it doesn't have active thermal management[1]. I guess it's possible one could make a replacement battery pack which has an internal cooling loop, but it would be quite limited in how much heat it could get rid of through the battery case body without external radiators. Of course better batteries might heat up less when used or charged, due to lower internal resistance, but that still leaves really hot or freezing days. [1]: https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/31/does-the-new-62-kwh-leaf-battery-have-an-additional-fan-for-cooling/ https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/31/does-the-new-62-kwh-leaf...
- m463 6y ago
  ha, not really. The main problem(s) with the leaf are - it charges to 100% every time (unless you dig into a menu, turn on analytics and switch to 80%) I never knew a leaf driver that figured this out. - the battery size is very small, so you need a full charge to get anywhere reliably and/or drain it very low. - to put any kind of mileage on the car, you need to cycle the battery MANY times. (one cycle might be a day's driving on the leaf, but one cycle on a tesla is a week's driving or more) I think the leaf would be a perfect car with up to 20 miles of daily driving. (I owned the same car as OP)
  - magicalhippo 6y ago
    > it charges to 100% every time Ah, I hadn't picked up on this. My BMW i3 has a built-in buffer so what shows as 100% on the dash is actually about 80%, and similarly for 0% (I verified through the raw data). Doing true "0-100" definitely does not do the battery any favors.
    - goodcanadian 6y ago
      The leaf also has a built in buffer like that though I don't know the exact numbers.
  - theshrike79 6y ago
    It also suffers from rapidgate and coldgate both. Either the battery heats up too much during driving to accept proper charge (no thermal management). Or it's too cold to accept charge (no heating).
    - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
      Why is everything a gate now, this is getting ridiculous. Is there a website to keep track of all the gates?
      - jsight 6y ago
        Kind of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_%22-gate%22_scandals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_%22-gate%22_scandals It isn't comprehensive, though.
- Robotbeat 6y ago
  Battery chemistry has improved so while it will never be a Tesla (lack of coolant loop, etc), I have heard some folks have gotten a significantly better Leaf after replacement. A heater for freezing days would be pretty simple.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    This video describes the evolution of the Nissan batteries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpgv-dY-q6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpgv-dY-q6M
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  It's somewhat strange that they didn't add active thermal management. The Nissan electric vans do have it.
  - WorldMaker 6y ago
    Recent Leafs have added it since, around the same time Teslas added it (but well after GM did, as GM will point to its Michigan Proving Grounds as a bitterly cold battery workout and saw active thermal management as an early requirement).
- fomine3 6y ago
  It's sad that Leaf's failure makes "air cooling is bad" opinion. Leaf's approach is body contact cooling rather than air cooling. I expect properly done air cooling isn't so bad.
Tade0 6y ago
I could, because the 2nd generation Leaf was more of a facelift and the newer, 40kWh battery snaps right into place.

AFAIK the main problem with the Leaf battery is that it doesn't have active thermal management[1]. I guess it's possible one could make a replacement battery pack which has an internal cooling loop, but it would be quite limited in how much heat it could get rid of through the battery case body without external radiators. Of course better batteries might heat up less when used or charged, due to lower internal resistance, but that still leaves really hot or freezing days. [1]: https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/31/does-the-new-62-kwh-leaf-battery-have-an-additional-fan-for-cooling/ https://electricrevs.com/2019/01/31/does-the-new-62-kwh-leaf...

m463 6y ago
ha, not really. The main problem(s) with the leaf are - it charges to 100% every time (unless you dig into a menu, turn on analytics and switch to 80%) I never knew a leaf driver that figured this out. - the battery size is very small, so you need a full charge to get anywhere reliably and/or drain it very low. - to put any kind of mileage on the car, you need to cycle the battery MANY times. (one cycle might be a day's driving on the leaf, but one cycle on a tesla is a week's driving or more) I think the leaf would be a perfect car with up to 20 miles of daily driving. (I owned the same car as OP)
- magicalhippo 6y ago
  > it charges to 100% every time Ah, I hadn't picked up on this. My BMW i3 has a built-in buffer so what shows as 100% on the dash is actually about 80%, and similarly for 0% (I verified through the raw data). Doing true "0-100" definitely does not do the battery any favors.
  - goodcanadian 6y ago
    The leaf also has a built in buffer like that though I don't know the exact numbers.
- theshrike79 6y ago
  It also suffers from rapidgate and coldgate both. Either the battery heats up too much during driving to accept proper charge (no thermal management). Or it's too cold to accept charge (no heating).
  - ClumsyPilot 6y ago
    Why is everything a gate now, this is getting ridiculous. Is there a website to keep track of all the gates?
    - jsight 6y ago
      Kind of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_%22-gate%22_scandals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_%22-gate%22_scandals It isn't comprehensive, though.
Robotbeat 6y ago
Battery chemistry has improved so while it will never be a Tesla (lack of coolant loop, etc), I have heard some folks have gotten a significantly better Leaf after replacement. A heater for freezing days would be pretty simple.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  This video describes the evolution of the Nissan batteries: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpgv-dY-q6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpgv-dY-q6M
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
It's somewhat strange that they didn't add active thermal management. The Nissan electric vans do have it.
- WorldMaker 6y ago
  Recent Leafs have added it since, around the same time Teslas added it (but well after GM did, as GM will point to its Michigan Proving Grounds as a bitterly cold battery workout and saw active thermal management as an early requirement).
fomine3 6y ago
It's sad that Leaf's failure makes "air cooling is bad" opinion. Leaf's approach is body contact cooling rather than air cooling. I expect properly done air cooling isn't so bad.

Tade0 6y ago

I could, because the 2nd generation Leaf was more of a facelift and the newer, 40kWh battery snaps right into place.