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> or contemplating the consequences What those consequences be if the society does not punish people for that? (where “punishment” isn’t necessarily prison tim

by ilammy 6y ago

> or contemplating the consequences What those consequences be if the society does not punish people for that? (where “punishment” isn’t necessarily prison time) You can’t bring back dead people to life, unfortunately. For some other crimes you can be fined, make amendments in other ways, having your license revoked, etc. But not for manslaughter. For this crime any punishment is exerted only as a message to other people: don’t kill people or else those bad things will happen to you.

mhh__ 6y ago
> What those consequences be if the society does not punish people for that? Given the state of most prisons in the west (Especially in the US), we are often sending people to effectively rot and even if they get out they might as well be dead they're so stunted. Indeed, you can't bring dead people back to life. Judicial systems should not be based off of the emotions of people affected by crimes - it's not a nice thing to say but it just empirically doesn't work. > For this crime any punishment is exerted only as a message to other people: don’t kill people or else those bad things will happen to you. Not only is deterrent-policy usually very expensive both directly and in the aforementioned tendency to shit out people who go straight back into crime, I'm not aware of any studies that manage to disprove their null. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/deterrence https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/deterrence In the extreme "capital punishment means those without capital get the punishment.".
- 3131s 6y ago
  Sure, but that's not what any of us are arguing. I want radical reform of the prison system and the judicial system, but after we've made our prisons as humane as possible then I want to put this guy in there for at least 20 years. They should tie the penalty to blood alcohol concentration and it should be substantial for anyone driving in the higher ranges.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    What are you accomplishing by doing that?
    - 3131s 6y ago
      What is accomplished is that this maniac is contained in a cell for 12 years, out of society and unable to kill people. You can cry me a river but there are plenty of drug dealers getting those kind of years in America, and it's a little telling that this case is the one that really riles your sympathy.
throwawayboise 6y ago
Knowing that you killed two innocent young people would certainly be a huge consequence for most people, one that they would never get over. I think by comparison some jail time would be almost inconsequential. If the former isn't a deterrent, I don't see how the latter would be, psychopaths excepted perhaps.

by ilammy 6y ago

mhh__ 6y ago

> What those consequences be if the society does not punish people for that? Given the state of most prisons in the west (Especially in the US), we are often sending people to effectively rot and even if they get out they might as well be dead they're so stunted. Indeed, you can't bring dead people back to life. Judicial systems should not be based off of the emotions of people affected by crimes - it's not a nice thing to say but it just empirically doesn't work. > For this crime any punishment is exerted only as a message to other people: don’t kill people or else those bad things will happen to you. Not only is deterrent-policy usually very expensive both directly and in the aforementioned tendency to shit out people who go straight back into crime, I'm not aware of any studies that manage to disprove their null. https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/deterrence https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/deterrence In the extreme "capital punishment means those without capital get the punishment.".

3131s 6y ago
Sure, but that's not what any of us are arguing. I want radical reform of the prison system and the judicial system, but after we've made our prisons as humane as possible then I want to put this guy in there for at least 20 years. They should tie the penalty to blood alcohol concentration and it should be substantial for anyone driving in the higher ranges.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  What are you accomplishing by doing that?
  - 3131s 6y ago
    What is accomplished is that this maniac is contained in a cell for 12 years, out of society and unable to kill people. You can cry me a river but there are plenty of drug dealers getting those kind of years in America, and it's a little telling that this case is the one that really riles your sympathy.

throwawayboise 6y ago

Knowing that you killed two innocent young people would certainly be a huge consequence for most people, one that they would never get over. I think by comparison some jail time would be almost inconsequential. If the former isn't a deterrent, I don't see how the latter would be, psychopaths excepted perhaps.