2 ms·

I'm sorry if it comes off as dismissing the plight of others, that certainly wasn't my intention. I think being sentenced so heavily in one's youth is arguably

I'm sorry if it comes off as dismissing the plight of others, that certainly wasn't my intention. I think being sentenced so heavily in one's youth is arguably more tragic because there's an argument to be made that adolescence is a different developmental period [0]. Perhaps sentencing should take this into account (e.g. a different sentencing bracket until ~24?). Also, there's another argument to be made that younger people have had less time to sort themselves out, and a longer time to redeem themselves or make something of themselves (which I think we see here, not to say an elderly person couldn't do that). With regards to less intelligent people who are imprisoned, I would even say their plight is maybe even more tragic. Less intelligent people probably have faced many more hardships in life and/or had a harder time mounting a strong legal defence (though intelligent people are more likely to abuse drugs [1]). I suppose this struck me in particular because it's a strong condemnation of the stereotype that prisoners are "certain kinds" of people. The contrast is what made it stand out. Maybe it can serve as an example for those who believe you only end up in prison if you are one of those "certain kinds" of people. Again, it wasn't a calculated sentiment, it just struck me how absurd getting sentenced to up to 30 years of imprisonment is, especially as a 19 year-old who probably could've ended up at a top university if not for life circumstances. I also think our justice and prison system is fundamentally flawed and should be reworked, especially for non-violent crimes (which this borders on the edge of). [0]: https://bigthink.com/mind-brain/adult-brain https://bigthink.com/mind-brain/adult-brain [1]: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201010/why-intelligent-people-drink-more-alcohol https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-scientific-funda...

cortesoft 6y ago
This is true, but at the same time the guy killed two people. Those people are never coming back. Of course, harsh sentences don't always cause a drop in the rate of the crime being committed. This is an awful situation.
_cs2017_ 6y ago
Your point is unclear. If someone (non-violent and intelligent though he may be) regularly puts many people at risk of death, and likely will cause many more deaths if left unchecked, what do you propose to do? There is no tool available in the US (or even in less free societies, for that matter) to reform alcoholics into non-alcoholics, or to deny them an ability to drive. Installing alcohol detectors in every car sold in the US is technically feasible, but the preferences for individual freedom all but ensure this idea will be rejected (https://www.thedrive.com/news/30486/new-bill-could-force-automakers-to-install-in-car-breathalyzers-to-prevent-drunk-driving https://www.thedrive.com/news/30486/new-bill-could-force-aut...). Did you have any other proposals in mind?
- sebmellen 6y ago
  There definitely are many tools to reform alcoholics into non-alcoholics. There are standard treatment programs like Alcoholics Anonymous [0], there are a number of other rehabilitation programs [1], and there are cutting-edge therapies like psychedelic treatments [2]. It's a despondent (and false) view that alcoholism is untreatable. Also, as it comes to driving itself, France is a good example. There, police regularly do random spot-checks for drunk drivers [3], and IIRC every driver must necessarily carry a breathalyser [4]. [0]: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201007/does-alcoholics-anonymous-work-because-its-form-cognitive-behavioral-therapy https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201007/do... [1]: https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/treatment/ https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/treatment/ [2]: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-instincts/201905/can-psychedelic-experiences-cure-alcohol-addiction https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-instincts/201... [3]: https://www.theaa.com/european-breakdown-cover/driving-in-europe/country-by-country/france-and-monaco https://www.theaa.com/european-breakdown-cover/driving-in-eu... [4]: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2104252/New-French-law-makes-breathalyser-kits-compulsory-motorists.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2104252/New-Frenc...
  - _cs2017_ 6y ago
    France attemtps to prevent alcoholics from driving. It doesn't actually prevent it. The very first result on Google search: https://www.statista.com/statistics/767979/deaths-road-accidents-state-driver-france/#:~:text=In%202018%2C%20almost%203%2C300%20people,France%20but%20also%20in%20Europe https://www.statista.com/statistics/767979/deaths-road-accid...: "Drunk driving is the leading cause of traffic fatalities in France". So if you don't put someone in jail, they often keep driving and killing. What to do about that? Similarly, reform programs attempt to reform alcoholics; they often do not succeed. Jail, however unpleasant it may be, seems to be the only reliable tool to prevent further killing (at least for the duration of the jail term).

cortesoft 6y ago

This is true, but at the same time the guy killed two people. Those people are never coming back. Of course, harsh sentences don't always cause a drop in the rate of the crime being committed. This is an awful situation.

_cs2017_ 6y ago

Your point is unclear. If someone (non-violent and intelligent though he may be) regularly puts many people at risk of death, and likely will cause many more deaths if left unchecked, what do you propose to do? There is no tool available in the US (or even in less free societies, for that matter) to reform alcoholics into non-alcoholics, or to deny them an ability to drive. Installing alcohol detectors in every car sold in the US is technically feasible, but the preferences for individual freedom all but ensure this idea will be rejected (https://www.thedrive.com/news/30486/new-bill-could-force-automakers-to-install-in-car-breathalyzers-to-prevent-drunk-driving https://www.thedrive.com/news/30486/new-bill-could-force-aut...). Did you have any other proposals in mind?

sebmellen 6y ago
There definitely are many tools to reform alcoholics into non-alcoholics. There are standard treatment programs like Alcoholics Anonymous [0], there are a number of other rehabilitation programs [1], and there are cutting-edge therapies like psychedelic treatments [2]. It's a despondent (and false) view that alcoholism is untreatable. Also, as it comes to driving itself, France is a good example. There, police regularly do random spot-checks for drunk drivers [3], and IIRC every driver must necessarily carry a breathalyser [4]. [0]: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201007/does-alcoholics-anonymous-work-because-its-form-cognitive-behavioral-therapy https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/think-well/201007/do... [1]: https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/treatment/ https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/treatment/ [2]: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-instincts/201905/can-psychedelic-experiences-cure-alcohol-addiction https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/social-instincts/201... [3]: https://www.theaa.com/european-breakdown-cover/driving-in-europe/country-by-country/france-and-monaco https://www.theaa.com/european-breakdown-cover/driving-in-eu... [4]: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2104252/New-French-law-makes-breathalyser-kits-compulsory-motorists.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2104252/New-Frenc...
- _cs2017_ 6y ago
  France attemtps to prevent alcoholics from driving. It doesn't actually prevent it. The very first result on Google search: https://www.statista.com/statistics/767979/deaths-road-accidents-state-driver-france/#:~:text=In%202018%2C%20almost%203%2C300%20people,France%20but%20also%20in%20Europe https://www.statista.com/statistics/767979/deaths-road-accid...: "Drunk driving is the leading cause of traffic fatalities in France". So if you don't put someone in jail, they often keep driving and killing. What to do about that? Similarly, reform programs attempt to reform alcoholics; they often do not succeed. Jail, however unpleasant it may be, seems to be the only reliable tool to prevent further killing (at least for the duration of the jail term).