6 ms·

My point is that it doesn’t fail in edge cases. It has very clear limitations, there are no surprises. Even if you were literally asleep at the wheel, the worst

My point is that it doesn’t fail in edge cases. It has very clear limitations, there are no surprises. Even if you were literally asleep at the wheel, the worst thing that would happen is it’d end up stopped in front of a traffic light, waiting for you to take over.

totalZero 6y ago
> the worst thing that would happen is it’d end up stopped in front of a traffic light, waiting I get your overall point, but this particular statement is empirically false.
Arainach 6y ago
"very clear limitations" that users continue to ignore. Some of that is stupid users, some of that is users assuming that "autopilot" means more than it does because that term has already meant something for the last 40 years in our society - something that Tesla doesn't deliver on. Tesla's warnings to put your hands on the wheel are obviously insufficient based on regular videos of drivers asleep at the wheel on the freeway (https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/18/21445168/tesla-driver-sleeping-police-charged-canada-autopilot https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/18/21445168/tesla-driver-sle... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhObsMnipS8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhObsMnipS8 https://www.businessinsider.com/drivers-sleeping-in-tesla-cars-autopilot-asleep-while-driving-videos-2019-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/drivers-sleeping-in-tesla-ca... and many more). At a bare minimum, their code needs to bring the vehicle to a safe half rather than continue on its way forever dinging if the user refuses to interact with it. And no, there are far worse things that can happen. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51645566 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51645566 https://apnews.com/article/ca5e62255bb87bf1b151f9bf075aaadf https://apnews.com/article/ca5e62255bb87bf1b151f9bf075aaadf
- xedeon 6y ago
  > Tesla's warnings to put your hands on the wheel are obviously insufficient based on regular videos of drivers asleep at the wheel on the freeway Every Tesla owner will tell you that those videos where people are "falling asleep" are staged. Why? because if you don't acknowledge the warnings, it will turn on the hazards stop and disable autopilot for the rest of the drive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uw97Gx1lYw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uw97Gx1lYw
  - mikejb 6y ago
    That particular attack had been fixed, but I remember people disabling those warnings with oranges: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYZrehVQouc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYZrehVQouc It's an arms race between Tesla being legally on the safe side, and drivers using the car as Tesla advertises it.
    - xedeon 6y ago
      > That particular attack had been fixed Which one? > drivers using the car as Tesla advertises it. I'm confused, How exactly is Tesla advertising the car where you don't have to pay attention? It even explicitly tells you to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention.
      - Arainach 6y ago
        They call it Autopilot. On their car configuration tool, the text that appears in the biggest font says "Full Self-Driving Capability". The fine print doesn't matter - Tesla is advertising more than it can deliver. Or this wonderful paragraph: "Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars." https://www.tesla.com/models/design#autopilot https://www.tesla.com/models/design#autopilot
        xedeon 6y ago
        > They call it Autopilot. On their car configuration tool, the text that appears in the biggest font says "Full Self-Driving Capability". I don't think you understand. "Autopilot" and "Full Self-Driving Capability" (FSD) are two completely different features. Autopilot comes free as standar. While FSD is an optional feature, that adds things like: Navigate on Autopilot, Summon, Auto Park, Auto Lane Change etc. FSD Beta can take you from point A to B with minimal to zero interventions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaJCYYiDzQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaJCYYiDzQQ > Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars." But it current does that. I used it everyday on my commute! That feature is called "Navigate on autopilot". https://youtu.be/j6S_-35O_w8?t=406 https://youtu.be/j6S_-35O_w8?t=406

totalZero 6y ago

> the worst thing that would happen is it’d end up stopped in front of a traffic light, waiting I get your overall point, but this particular statement is empirically false.

Arainach 6y ago

"very clear limitations" that users continue to ignore. Some of that is stupid users, some of that is users assuming that "autopilot" means more than it does because that term has already meant something for the last 40 years in our society - something that Tesla doesn't deliver on. Tesla's warnings to put your hands on the wheel are obviously insufficient based on regular videos of drivers asleep at the wheel on the freeway (https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/18/21445168/tesla-driver-sleeping-police-charged-canada-autopilot https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/18/21445168/tesla-driver-sle... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhObsMnipS8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhObsMnipS8 https://www.businessinsider.com/drivers-sleeping-in-tesla-cars-autopilot-asleep-while-driving-videos-2019-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/drivers-sleeping-in-tesla-ca... and many more). At a bare minimum, their code needs to bring the vehicle to a safe half rather than continue on its way forever dinging if the user refuses to interact with it. And no, there are far worse things that can happen. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51645566 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-51645566 https://apnews.com/article/ca5e62255bb87bf1b151f9bf075aaadf https://apnews.com/article/ca5e62255bb87bf1b151f9bf075aaadf

xedeon 6y ago
> Tesla's warnings to put your hands on the wheel are obviously insufficient based on regular videos of drivers asleep at the wheel on the freeway Every Tesla owner will tell you that those videos where people are "falling asleep" are staged. Why? because if you don't acknowledge the warnings, it will turn on the hazards stop and disable autopilot for the rest of the drive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uw97Gx1lYw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uw97Gx1lYw
- mikejb 6y ago
  That particular attack had been fixed, but I remember people disabling those warnings with oranges: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYZrehVQouc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYZrehVQouc It's an arms race between Tesla being legally on the safe side, and drivers using the car as Tesla advertises it.
  - xedeon 6y ago
    > That particular attack had been fixed Which one? > drivers using the car as Tesla advertises it. I'm confused, How exactly is Tesla advertising the car where you don't have to pay attention? It even explicitly tells you to keep your hands on the wheel and pay attention.
    - Arainach 6y ago
      They call it Autopilot. On their car configuration tool, the text that appears in the biggest font says "Full Self-Driving Capability". The fine print doesn't matter - Tesla is advertising more than it can deliver. Or this wonderful paragraph: "Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars." https://www.tesla.com/models/design#autopilot https://www.tesla.com/models/design#autopilot
      - xedeon 6y ago
        > They call it Autopilot. On their car configuration tool, the text that appears in the biggest font says "Full Self-Driving Capability". I don't think you understand. "Autopilot" and "Full Self-Driving Capability" (FSD) are two completely different features. Autopilot comes free as standar. While FSD is an optional feature, that adds things like: Navigate on Autopilot, Summon, Auto Park, Auto Lane Change etc. FSD Beta can take you from point A to B with minimal to zero interventions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaJCYYiDzQQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaJCYYiDzQQ > Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars." But it current does that. I used it everyday on my commute! That feature is called "Navigate on autopilot". https://youtu.be/j6S_-35O_w8?t=406 https://youtu.be/j6S_-35O_w8?t=406