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What do you think about how members of the last US executive administration should be treated? Should people give them jobs? Most people are in favor of puniti

by abnry 6y ago

What do you think about how members of the last US executive administration should be treated? Should people give them jobs? Most people are in favor of punitive justice, but for the "right" wrongs.

aaomidi 6y ago
Personally I'd want them to not have executive jobs where they have influence over peoples lives. Not as a punishment, but as an actual deterrent. However I'd personally prefer to root out why right-wing extremism is on the rise. I had this discussion a few days ago about what should be done about the capitol terrorists, and I don't think they should face severe jail/policing. I know of a few leftist circles that also banned any mention of FBI tiplines etc, because those individuals were just a symptom of a problem. And punishing the symptom does nothing to the disease.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  > I know of a few leftist circles that also banned any mention of FBI tiplines etc, because those individuals were just a symptom of a problem. And punishing the symptom does nothing to the disease. Arguably leniency is precisely why the problem is what it is today. Laws are laws, the only reason why the Capitol incident happened is that the American far-right is in Q-induced fever dream completely unchecked by any feedback.
  - aaomidi 6y ago
    > Arguably leniency is precisely why the problem is what it is today. I don't think that's true. I don't think lack of policing and enforcement of laws is why white supremacy is on the rise.
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      When the president is cheering you on why would you stop
mhh__ 6y ago
My own philosophy is that we should be prepared to come down like a hammer on the crimes that require premeditation, dedication, and intellect to execute. If someone gets caught up in the wrong crowd at a young age, they need help not punishment - even the process of receiving that help can be sufficiently emasculating as to be punishment in itself (arguably). If, for instance, the you-know-which Trump pardons hadn't happened, then they absolutely deserved to be punished. Similarly, tax offences at scale and (say) trying to overrule a result in Georgia... If it weren't for my existing beliefs about the death penalty, I almost believe in capital punishment for treason - specifically espionage. Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen are unbelievably lucky to be alive.
- abnry 6y ago
  You give far too little credit to pure recklessness. It takes a hundred practiced bad decisions to eventually decide it is okay to drive drunk. At that point you are essentially gambling with people's lives. If someone habitually rolls a die where a six gets someone killed, and they eventually roll a six, you got to ask why they were rolling the die so many times to begin with. In a very real sense the consequence is premeditated.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    > It takes a hundred practiced bad decisions to eventually decide it is okay to drive drunk. At that point you are essentially gambling with people's lives. True, but Alcoholism is a disease and can be treated. I don't subscribe to the, frankly, beastly view of my government that the poor and imprisoned aren't mostly determined by their nurture rather than their nature and "decisions" (We don't live in a vacuum).
    - abnry 6y ago
      If that is your logic then even the premeditated crimes should be only given slaps on the wrist as their "decisions" are as much of a product of their environment as anyone else's. They don't live in a vacuum either. It is, in fact, a rather patronising view to believe only the poor and unfortunate lack personal agency to make good decisions. As if bad circumstances shut off their brains and makes them incapable of doing anything.

by abnry 6y ago

What do you think about how members of the last US executive administration should be treated? Should people give them jobs? Most people are in favor of punitive justice, but for the "right" wrongs.

aaomidi 6y ago

Personally I'd want them to not have executive jobs where they have influence over peoples lives. Not as a punishment, but as an actual deterrent. However I'd personally prefer to root out why right-wing extremism is on the rise. I had this discussion a few days ago about what should be done about the capitol terrorists, and I don't think they should face severe jail/policing. I know of a few leftist circles that also banned any mention of FBI tiplines etc, because those individuals were just a symptom of a problem. And punishing the symptom does nothing to the disease.

mhh__ 6y ago
> I know of a few leftist circles that also banned any mention of FBI tiplines etc, because those individuals were just a symptom of a problem. And punishing the symptom does nothing to the disease. Arguably leniency is precisely why the problem is what it is today. Laws are laws, the only reason why the Capitol incident happened is that the American far-right is in Q-induced fever dream completely unchecked by any feedback.
- aaomidi 6y ago
  > Arguably leniency is precisely why the problem is what it is today. I don't think that's true. I don't think lack of policing and enforcement of laws is why white supremacy is on the rise.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    When the president is cheering you on why would you stop

mhh__ 6y ago

My own philosophy is that we should be prepared to come down like a hammer on the crimes that require premeditation, dedication, and intellect to execute. If someone gets caught up in the wrong crowd at a young age, they need help not punishment - even the process of receiving that help can be sufficiently emasculating as to be punishment in itself (arguably). If, for instance, the you-know-which Trump pardons hadn't happened, then they absolutely deserved to be punished. Similarly, tax offences at scale and (say) trying to overrule a result in Georgia... If it weren't for my existing beliefs about the death penalty, I almost believe in capital punishment for treason - specifically espionage. Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen are unbelievably lucky to be alive.

abnry 6y ago
You give far too little credit to pure recklessness. It takes a hundred practiced bad decisions to eventually decide it is okay to drive drunk. At that point you are essentially gambling with people's lives. If someone habitually rolls a die where a six gets someone killed, and they eventually roll a six, you got to ask why they were rolling the die so many times to begin with. In a very real sense the consequence is premeditated.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  > It takes a hundred practiced bad decisions to eventually decide it is okay to drive drunk. At that point you are essentially gambling with people's lives. True, but Alcoholism is a disease and can be treated. I don't subscribe to the, frankly, beastly view of my government that the poor and imprisoned aren't mostly determined by their nurture rather than their nature and "decisions" (We don't live in a vacuum).
  - abnry 6y ago
    If that is your logic then even the premeditated crimes should be only given slaps on the wrist as their "decisions" are as much of a product of their environment as anyone else's. They don't live in a vacuum either. It is, in fact, a rather patronising view to believe only the poor and unfortunate lack personal agency to make good decisions. As if bad circumstances shut off their brains and makes them incapable of doing anything.