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So what? Just because your application is simple, does not mean you need to use vanilla tools. Do you get mad at a carpenter for using a nail gun because he 'c

So what? Just because your application is simple, does not mean you need to use vanilla tools. Do you get mad at a carpenter for using a nail gun because he 'can more easily swing a hammer'? It is the application of tools not the tools themselves that is the problem. I really can't understand why so many people rag on frontend development as if we (as frontend developers) are just magpies who gather shiny things and don't care about performance or simplicity.

systemvoltage 6y ago
> I really can't understand why so many people rag on frontend development May be you should try to listen to them more carefully and make an attempt to understand their woes.
- halfmatthalfcat 6y ago
  The problem is, most of those complaining have never tried to understand the complexity (and why it exists) because they've never built a highly complex frontend application! They're degrees removed and just throw stones from their glass houses. Guess what, I'm not picking Spring to make a simple REST api when it takes 5 lines in Expressjs. Why? Spring is complete overkill. So along those lines, should you use React/Redux/Redux-{Thunk,Promise,Observable}/Navigation/etc if you need a simple 2 page site? NO! Jesus christ, you pick the right tool for the right job. There's a reason though, when you have a highly complex app with insane business rules (that could very well be hidden from the airmchair HN crowd) where you need that complexity. And guess what, if you're highly versed in these "complex" frontend tools (spoiler: they're not complex), then it makes building sites, generally, very easy. So go ahead, believe what you want and continue to parrot the "the frontend ecosystem is hopeless, needlessly complex and godless" while the rest of us continue developing with these "complex" tools because they make our lives as developers easier. I'll sleep happy while you wait that one more second for the page to load.
  - ZephyrBlu 6y ago
    I agree with what you're saying. I think what most people are frustrated about with the frontend ecosystem (And many other areas of software) is actually misuse of tools.

systemvoltage 6y ago

> I really can't understand why so many people rag on frontend development May be you should try to listen to them more carefully and make an attempt to understand their woes.

halfmatthalfcat 6y ago
The problem is, most of those complaining have never tried to understand the complexity (and why it exists) because they've never built a highly complex frontend application! They're degrees removed and just throw stones from their glass houses. Guess what, I'm not picking Spring to make a simple REST api when it takes 5 lines in Expressjs. Why? Spring is complete overkill. So along those lines, should you use React/Redux/Redux-{Thunk,Promise,Observable}/Navigation/etc if you need a simple 2 page site? NO! Jesus christ, you pick the right tool for the right job. There's a reason though, when you have a highly complex app with insane business rules (that could very well be hidden from the airmchair HN crowd) where you need that complexity. And guess what, if you're highly versed in these "complex" frontend tools (spoiler: they're not complex), then it makes building sites, generally, very easy. So go ahead, believe what you want and continue to parrot the "the frontend ecosystem is hopeless, needlessly complex and godless" while the rest of us continue developing with these "complex" tools because they make our lives as developers easier. I'll sleep happy while you wait that one more second for the page to load.
- ZephyrBlu 6y ago
  I agree with what you're saying. I think what most people are frustrated about with the frontend ecosystem (And many other areas of software) is actually misuse of tools.