5 ms·

Instead of trusting this anecdote, why don’t you jump over to YouTube and search for “Tesla FSD” to see what it really looks like? Lots of very instructive vide

by jiofih 6y ago

Instead of trusting this anecdote, why don’t you jump over to YouTube and search for “Tesla FSD” to see what it really looks like? Lots of very instructive videos available from people on the beta program.

Animats 6y ago
Yes. Check out this one.[1] Watch the display for what it sees and isn't seeing. Awareness of oncoming traffic is almost nonexistent. Except when the FedEx truck is reflected in some windows; then it detects the reflection as a vehicle. Although the streets are almost empty, the driver takes over frequently. This is way below what Waymo and Cruise can do. [1] https://youtu.be/6G1Z2J3WUSg?t=231 https://youtu.be/6G1Z2J3WUSg?t=231
- snoshy 6y ago
  Is this really all that important? There are 3 other cars ahead of the Tesla at this red light intersection. If you're able to react within tens or hundreds of milliseconds to a changing environment, it would actually make sense to reduce compute to save power for when the vehicle is in motion and not surrounded by other vehicles at a stop light. Edit: It seemed to handle that intersection just fine, but a couple of turns down it ends up on the wrong side of the road, which is quite bad. That said, what proof do you have that Waymo/Cruise would be any better at this?
  - Animats 6y ago
    Here's an hour of a Cruise vehicle driving in San Francisco.[1] Watch it deal with a trash bag that fell out of a dumpster, a left turn across heavy opposing traffic, double-parked cars, cars pulling out of parking spaces, a FedEx truck changing lanes across their path... Makes Tesla look like amateur hour. [1] https://youtu.be/EZ75QoAymug?t=122 https://youtu.be/EZ75QoAymug?t=122
    - xedeon 6y ago
      https://youtu.be/v9-sYOMDuI8?t=66 https://youtu.be/v9-sYOMDuI8?t=66
    - jiofih 6y ago
      Since they rely on pre-mapping, that’s the equivalent of a carnival ride on rails and not really comparable to what Tesla is doing (unsupervised training on billions of unknown road miles).
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    Being able to detect oncoming traffic seems pretty damned important to me! If it’s not detecting vehicles across the line, what assurance do I have that it’ll detect vehicles that cross the line?
- polishdude20 6y ago
  I always thought that it should be just as easy and safe to drive by looking at only the tesla screen and driving based on that before self driving can get anywhere close to complete. If the vehicles sensors can't pick things up , then the vehicle can't react to them.
- bcrosby95 6y ago
  "It decides to go in the opposite lane. That is not ideal." Twice in a row. At two different left turns. Yeah, not ideal.
- _ph_ 6y ago
  Look closer. The oncoming traffic is detected, just the visualization on the dashboard screen in a bright yellow is difficult to mark out in the video.
  - KaiserPro 6y ago
    4:10, the delivery truck isn't seen until its mostly pulled out. On the right at the traffic lights, It can't see humans The traffic passing at the intersection is missed most of the time. 5:22, it drives onto the wrong side of the road into stationary traffic. That is amateur stuff right there.
  - Animats 6y ago
    I did look closer. If you bring the image into a Photoshop-like program and adjust the levels, you can see a yellow square where one oncoming car is. You can also see yellow squares elsewhere. It's a compression artifact.
- dillondoyle 6y ago
  that is terrifying. the next 60 seconds after that is crazy bad. 'that is not ideal'... We need to legislate this before more people die
  - jiofih 6y ago
    Nothing scary happens in the next 60 seconds. The car would obviously not go into the opposite lane if there was traffic, and given a few more seconds it would return to the right shoulder. The driver is jumpy and taking over before it has time to correct anything.
    - dillondoyle 6y ago
      what?! first I dont think that's so obvious that the car would obviously not go into the opposite lane, it doesnt even see all the cars as OP pointed out and Teslas have rammed solid objects stationary at full speed. Not being able to 'see' standard lane markings is such a basic requirement! The car shouldn't have to correct. if this was a student driver during a test I'm guessing they would fail - been a while I don't know the points but there are multiple really bad mistakes.
      - jiofih 6y ago
        Teslas have been on the road for years and there is zero occurrences of one turning into live traffic. You’re underestimating the state of its self-driving abilities, there are no visible lane markings at that point in the video, it’s a error you might see a human make.
snoshy 6y ago
Exactly. There's real world video footage showing the vehicle behavior that includes Tesla animations showing the vehicle's current understanding of the environment. It's rather cheap to take trivial shots at Tesla (no matter how bad their product might be) while comparing it to 23 year old understanding of human-machine automation in an entirely different context such as aviation. Quite unfortunate you're downvoted, but literally asking people to watch some videos of real world usage [1] to make up their minds appears to be too much. [1] https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+fsd+beta&sp=EgIIBA%253D%253D https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+fsd+beta&...
- afavour 6y ago
  Can the footage be trusted? From my understanding Tesla has only rolled this out to a small number of users, browsing the YT search results you’ve provided I see that almost all the results are Tesla super fan accounts. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to disregard this until you see an objective assessment in the field.
  - snoshy 6y ago
    It's fair to question the motivations of the FSD beta testers. They were obviously hand picked to ensure maximum safety, adequate public profile, having committed large sums of money to prove their allegiance, as well as being existing fans of the company. So they're likely to be biased. But that's a long way from alleging that they've doctored their videos, or that Tesla itself has censored them. There are many many instances of footage showing almost crashes that were only avoided because the driver intervened. If you were the censor, would you allow those? Compare that to Waymo or Cruise or anyone else. They are obviously heavily censoring and have no independent owners recording footage, nor sharing it like this. It's a huge step up in much needed transparency.
    - ra7 6y ago
      > Compare that to Waymo or Cruise or anyone else. They are obviously heavily censoring and have no independent owners recording footage, nor sharing it like this. It's a huge step up in much needed transparency. You clearly haven't searched Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/c/JJRicksStudios https://www.youtube.com/c/JJRicksStudios is one such channel which frequently posts videos of his Waymo rides. There are others if you search, not so much volume as Tesla though.

by jiofih 6y ago

Animats 6y ago

Yes. Check out this one.[1] Watch the display for what it sees and isn't seeing. Awareness of oncoming traffic is almost nonexistent. Except when the FedEx truck is reflected in some windows; then it detects the reflection as a vehicle. Although the streets are almost empty, the driver takes over frequently. This is way below what Waymo and Cruise can do. [1] https://youtu.be/6G1Z2J3WUSg?t=231 https://youtu.be/6G1Z2J3WUSg?t=231

snoshy 6y ago
Is this really all that important? There are 3 other cars ahead of the Tesla at this red light intersection. If you're able to react within tens or hundreds of milliseconds to a changing environment, it would actually make sense to reduce compute to save power for when the vehicle is in motion and not surrounded by other vehicles at a stop light. Edit: It seemed to handle that intersection just fine, but a couple of turns down it ends up on the wrong side of the road, which is quite bad. That said, what proof do you have that Waymo/Cruise would be any better at this?
- Animats 6y ago
  Here's an hour of a Cruise vehicle driving in San Francisco.[1] Watch it deal with a trash bag that fell out of a dumpster, a left turn across heavy opposing traffic, double-parked cars, cars pulling out of parking spaces, a FedEx truck changing lanes across their path... Makes Tesla look like amateur hour. [1] https://youtu.be/EZ75QoAymug?t=122 https://youtu.be/EZ75QoAymug?t=122
  - xedeon 6y ago
    https://youtu.be/v9-sYOMDuI8?t=66 https://youtu.be/v9-sYOMDuI8?t=66
  - jiofih 6y ago
    Since they rely on pre-mapping, that’s the equivalent of a carnival ride on rails and not really comparable to what Tesla is doing (unsupervised training on billions of unknown road miles).
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Being able to detect oncoming traffic seems pretty damned important to me! If it’s not detecting vehicles across the line, what assurance do I have that it’ll detect vehicles that cross the line?
polishdude20 6y ago
I always thought that it should be just as easy and safe to drive by looking at only the tesla screen and driving based on that before self driving can get anywhere close to complete. If the vehicles sensors can't pick things up , then the vehicle can't react to them.
bcrosby95 6y ago
"It decides to go in the opposite lane. That is not ideal." Twice in a row. At two different left turns. Yeah, not ideal.
_ph_ 6y ago
Look closer. The oncoming traffic is detected, just the visualization on the dashboard screen in a bright yellow is difficult to mark out in the video.
- KaiserPro 6y ago
  4:10, the delivery truck isn't seen until its mostly pulled out. On the right at the traffic lights, It can't see humans The traffic passing at the intersection is missed most of the time. 5:22, it drives onto the wrong side of the road into stationary traffic. That is amateur stuff right there.
- Animats 6y ago
  I did look closer. If you bring the image into a Photoshop-like program and adjust the levels, you can see a yellow square where one oncoming car is. You can also see yellow squares elsewhere. It's a compression artifact.
dillondoyle 6y ago
that is terrifying. the next 60 seconds after that is crazy bad. 'that is not ideal'... We need to legislate this before more people die
- jiofih 6y ago
  Nothing scary happens in the next 60 seconds. The car would obviously not go into the opposite lane if there was traffic, and given a few more seconds it would return to the right shoulder. The driver is jumpy and taking over before it has time to correct anything.
  - dillondoyle 6y ago
    what?! first I dont think that's so obvious that the car would obviously not go into the opposite lane, it doesnt even see all the cars as OP pointed out and Teslas have rammed solid objects stationary at full speed. Not being able to 'see' standard lane markings is such a basic requirement! The car shouldn't have to correct. if this was a student driver during a test I'm guessing they would fail - been a while I don't know the points but there are multiple really bad mistakes.
    - jiofih 6y ago
      Teslas have been on the road for years and there is zero occurrences of one turning into live traffic. You’re underestimating the state of its self-driving abilities, there are no visible lane markings at that point in the video, it’s a error you might see a human make.

snoshy 6y ago

Exactly. There's real world video footage showing the vehicle behavior that includes Tesla animations showing the vehicle's current understanding of the environment. It's rather cheap to take trivial shots at Tesla (no matter how bad their product might be) while comparing it to 23 year old understanding of human-machine automation in an entirely different context such as aviation. Quite unfortunate you're downvoted, but literally asking people to watch some videos of real world usage [1] to make up their minds appears to be too much. [1] https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+fsd+beta&sp=EgIIBA%253D%253D https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla+fsd+beta&...

afavour 6y ago
Can the footage be trusted? From my understanding Tesla has only rolled this out to a small number of users, browsing the YT search results you’ve provided I see that almost all the results are Tesla super fan accounts. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to disregard this until you see an objective assessment in the field.
- snoshy 6y ago
  It's fair to question the motivations of the FSD beta testers. They were obviously hand picked to ensure maximum safety, adequate public profile, having committed large sums of money to prove their allegiance, as well as being existing fans of the company. So they're likely to be biased. But that's a long way from alleging that they've doctored their videos, or that Tesla itself has censored them. There are many many instances of footage showing almost crashes that were only avoided because the driver intervened. If you were the censor, would you allow those? Compare that to Waymo or Cruise or anyone else. They are obviously heavily censoring and have no independent owners recording footage, nor sharing it like this. It's a huge step up in much needed transparency.
  - ra7 6y ago
    > Compare that to Waymo or Cruise or anyone else. They are obviously heavily censoring and have no independent owners recording footage, nor sharing it like this. It's a huge step up in much needed transparency. You clearly haven't searched Youtube. https://www.youtube.com/c/JJRicksStudios https://www.youtube.com/c/JJRicksStudios is one such channel which frequently posts videos of his Waymo rides. There are others if you search, not so much volume as Tesla though.