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Another IMO slightly more promising alternative is COI, the Chat Over IMAP protocol. It aims to extend IMAP servers while staying compatible with normal ones. h

Another IMO slightly more promising alternative is COI, the Chat Over IMAP protocol. It aims to extend IMAP servers while staying compatible with normal ones. https://github.com/coi-dev/ox-coi https://github.com/coi-dev/ox-coi Unfortunately, the development is on hold (?). I really like how they seem to plan on integrating normal email client functionality into it, something Delta Chat is also missing. I have tried both and would not recommend either to non-technical users at all, but I think that is not the primary audience yet anyway. The IM landscape is indeed in a bad shape currently. I hope Matrix will take the lead eventually. But not even Signal will help in that regard https://community.signalusers.org/t/make-signal-use-matrix-protocol/23282 https://community.signalusers.org/t/make-signal-use-matrix-p...

shakna 6y ago
> It aims to extend IMAP servers while staying compatible with normal ones... I really like how they seem to plan on integrating normal email client functionality into it, something Delta Chat is also missing. I don't see anywhere in DeltaChat's spec [0] anywhere it breaks compatibility with normal IMAP. So long as your email client can use autocrypt standard (plugins exist for Outlook, Thunderbird, etc.), then you can make use of DeltaChat emails as normal emails. [0] https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master/spec.md https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master...
- phil294 6y ago
  Yes you can use DeltaChat for "normal" emails as well, but I was referring to the usability of it. I do not think many would ever ditch, say, Gmail in favor of Delta, as long as conventional emails are prevailing. The main problem here is that an email thread is not necessarily limited to a fixed group of people. With every answer, the audience might change, with different ways to address recipients (direct, CC, BCC; Merging different threads via FWD, manually editing quoted messages). It's hard to apply these principles to group chats, which is why Delta Chat simply doesn't.
  - shakna 6y ago
    DeltaChat isn't limited to a fixed group of people either? [1] And supports forwarding just fine. [2] I think the useability problem is just that webmail as a whole has generally been stripped of features. If Gmail wasn't as constrained a client, you'd be able to do everything without caring if you had a "DeltaChat" client. It isn't an email-or-DeltaChat question. Both interact fine. But the clients people are currently using go out of their way to make it harder/impossible to do simple things. [1] https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master/spec.md#add-and-remove-members https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master... [2] https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master/spec.md#forwarded-messages https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master...
    - phil294 6y ago
      I read the specification, but I am really not sure I understand you here. Say person A sends an email to B with CC set to C. C then needs to reply to this email, but send the reply to D, with A as BCC and E as CC. From what I remember, such fine-grained mail sending configuration is not possible with DeltaChat because it does not fit common group chat mechanics. > I think the useability problem is just that webmail as a whole has generally been stripped of features. Yes, I agree

shakna 6y ago

> It aims to extend IMAP servers while staying compatible with normal ones... I really like how they seem to plan on integrating normal email client functionality into it, something Delta Chat is also missing. I don't see anywhere in DeltaChat's spec [0] anywhere it breaks compatibility with normal IMAP. So long as your email client can use autocrypt standard (plugins exist for Outlook, Thunderbird, etc.), then you can make use of DeltaChat emails as normal emails. [0] https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master/spec.md https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master...

phil294 6y ago
Yes you can use DeltaChat for "normal" emails as well, but I was referring to the usability of it. I do not think many would ever ditch, say, Gmail in favor of Delta, as long as conventional emails are prevailing. The main problem here is that an email thread is not necessarily limited to a fixed group of people. With every answer, the audience might change, with different ways to address recipients (direct, CC, BCC; Merging different threads via FWD, manually editing quoted messages). It's hard to apply these principles to group chats, which is why Delta Chat simply doesn't.
- shakna 6y ago
  DeltaChat isn't limited to a fixed group of people either? [1] And supports forwarding just fine. [2] I think the useability problem is just that webmail as a whole has generally been stripped of features. If Gmail wasn't as constrained a client, you'd be able to do everything without caring if you had a "DeltaChat" client. It isn't an email-or-DeltaChat question. Both interact fine. But the clients people are currently using go out of their way to make it harder/impossible to do simple things. [1] https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master/spec.md#add-and-remove-members https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master... [2] https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master/spec.md#forwarded-messages https://github.com/deltachat/deltachat-core-rust/blob/master...
  - phil294 6y ago
    I read the specification, but I am really not sure I understand you here. Say person A sends an email to B with CC set to C. C then needs to reply to this email, but send the reply to D, with A as BCC and E as CC. From what I remember, such fine-grained mail sending configuration is not possible with DeltaChat because it does not fit common group chat mechanics. > I think the useability problem is just that webmail as a whole has generally been stripped of features. Yes, I agree