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Interesting article, but I disagree with the conclusion. Smart car style vehicles never really caught on. They have a poor user experience. Cramped and they don

Interesting article, but I disagree with the conclusion. Smart car style vehicles never really caught on. They have a poor user experience. Cramped and they don’t feel very safe. Most people can’t ride a motorcycle either. They’re cool, but Apple isn’t about to target a specialty market with a play like this. I theorize Apple will produce a car, but surprise us by having zero ownership. It’ll be entirely plan based, a service subscription to compete with Uber. They’re just waiting for self driving to be feasible, so there are no drivers required.

spiderfarmer 6y ago
I also hate the fact that cars with “smart” technology start feeling dated after just a handful of years, just like my smartphone. And I’m not planning to commit to a similar upgrade cycle.
- foepys 6y ago
  If some stories are to be believed then Tesla has sales people that expect Tesla owners to buy a new car after 3-5 years. I don't think that's possible for the vast majority of people. A car should reliably take me for A to B and not lose 70% of its features just because the manufacturer decided to EOL the online service.
  - gnicholas 6y ago
    In states like CA, this means paying $4,000 to $10,000 in sales/use tax with each purchase. It’s an incredibly inefficient way to pay for having access to a car. If you’re going to trade in that frequently, it’s probably smarter to lease. (I say this as someone who generally opposes leasing and has never done so.)
    - Someone 6y ago
      It does cost money, but if you sell, you can pass part of that tax on to the buyer, as they’ll want to pay a bit more to avoid having to pay that tax themselves.
      - gnicholas 6y ago
        Huh? They’ll pay sales/use tax on the purchase of your used car as well.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  I drive a 10 year old vehicle and I feel like it has all the technology I really need or want. I might upgrade to something electric in the future, but I don't feel 'compelled' for any reason. My vehicle's primary purpose is to get me from Point A to Point B. Anything else that gets crammed in there is just more gravy on my meat and potatoes. Help me to understand why the "feeling dated" part of a vehicle is important to you? Or rather, what does a car from 2015 lack, that a car from 2020 has, that you find differentiates them enormously?
  - judge2020 6y ago
    Good lane keeping and collision avoidance could be a lifesaver in some situations. Same for having other driver assistance features like good adaptive cruise control and auto-steering - long trips can be less fatiguing when the car is driving itself most of the time.
  - jcheng 6y ago
    Our family has a 2012 VW Golf and a 2017 VW Golf. Compared to the former, the latter has a number of worthwhile upgrades. CarPlay makes both navigation and music enormously better. Automatic parallel parking comes in handy for getting into tight spaces, especially when there's pressure from cars waiting behind you. Automated emergency warning/braking has probably saved our 16-year-old from at least one minor accident so far. Radar cruise control definitely lessens fatigue during road trips. None of this is essential, but to me the difference in user experience is notable when going from one car to the other. A year or two ago I had access to a Tesla Model X for a period of time. I remember when the Netflix and YouTube watching features came out; I thought it was the dumbest thing. But then I realized I was spending probably a couple of hours a week sitting in parking lots waiting for my kids to get out of extracurricular activities (pre-covid), or waiting at the cell phone lot at the airport, etc. And having a huge screen and high quality audio to pass the time was pretty nice.
    - cbozeman 6y ago
      Fantastic points. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
- ubertoop 6y ago
  That, I believe, is a function of one material: PLASTIC. There's just something about plastic that feels cheap and replaceable even when used in a "high end" product. There are toasters from the 50s made in stainless steel that are timeless. Contrast that with the plastic enclosed toasters of the last few decades and it's just no contest.
  - tracedddd 6y ago
    The plastic definitely makes modern cars feel dated quickly, but the tech alone ages really fast. Even simple back up cameras that are 3 years old seem really low definition compared to the new birds eye surround cameras. Not to mention the UIs are laggy, and Bluetooth even feels like old tech now. If it doesn’t have CarPlay or equivalent it’s a downgrade.
zadler 6y ago
That would fit really well with their brand and current smartphone business. I wonder what they will do about the issue of people leaving the car dirty.
bognition 6y ago
Please no! No one is asking for ownership to be disrupted, we want someone to disrupt terrible cars. Modern cars are terrible, the UX is horrid, the software never gets updated, and the look and feel of a good middle class car is just trash. I own a model 3 and love it, yes it has some gap problems, yes structurally it might not be as sound as a Toyota but the car is a dream to drive. The experience is so much better than an internal combustion engine that i'll never go back. There's nothing quite like instant torque on the freeway while traveling 80 miles an hour.
- geden 6y ago
  I’m asking for ownership to be disrupted. It’s insane we all have our own and they have such low utilisation. They are almost always stationary parked somewhere when privately owned.
  - acct776 6y ago
    And keeping our in-transit coronavirus molecules contained. The horror.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Your use case is probably different. But the vehicle parked outside my house is one: - Whose features I very deliberately chose - Has a roof rack that can accommodate my canoe and/or kayak - Has all the stuff I carry around with me--especially for northern winter driving And if I want to run to the store right now, I can be on the road in 1 minute. I don't want fractional ownership and I'm sure I'm not unusual. Most of the depreciation is in the miles anyway. And, to the degree it becomes more related to how old the car is, that will be reflected in the costs.
  - lambda_dn 6y ago
    Your car is only second in the place you feel comfortable to your home. I'm at work all day (pre covid) and my home is sitting empty 50% of the time, so why should I own a home, maybe I can just sleep in a shared fractionally owned home. Never going to be accepted, by all means electrify cars and make them smarter and have robotaxis for when I can't drive. But the car ownership thing will never go away.
meddlepal 6y ago
Havent you basically just described a lease with no down payment and a flexible cancellation policy?
- hnxs 6y ago
  sounds amazing and i really want what you’re describing i dont want to buy a new car (new as in replacing my current car,im ok with used cars) because theyre overpriced, but i dont want to lease either due to what i consider bullshit costs, plus lock-in. as a result, ive had the same car since 2009, despite easily being able to afford something new. but fuck that, id rather put that money towards investing
- recursive 6y ago
  You can't co-lease with a flexible number of other users based on utilization.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    You sort of can. Isn’t belonging to a car share essentially that? The car share leases more or fewer vehicles depending on demand.
    - recursive 6y ago
      Yes. It's just not called a lease. I belonged to one of those for a time. Form some, it's just right.
- tracedddd 6y ago
  With a bunch of Apple integrations, and you don’t need to park or pick up, available in any major city in the world with a click, sure.
acct776 6y ago
Prototype and expensive motorcycles are self-balancing now. etc The tech always seems to come.
- mulmen 6y ago
  All motorcycles are self balancing.
  - plasticchris 6y ago
    Up to a point. Try letting off the throttle on a sport bike in a turn and see how well it works. Please don't actually do this.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- tracedddd 6y ago
  Even so, they’re still dangerous. No one in car crazy America is going to put their kids on an Apple motorcycle and run through rush hour traffic where everyone is watching TikTok videos while driving. Even the wind noise, debris hitting you, and weather considerations alone make it a no-go. Losing a wheel usually means going down. 99% of people strongly value that they will walk away from a crash fine with great probabilities. That simply cannot be said of 2 wheeled vehicles like it can be said of crumple zone air bag equipped 4 wheeled vehicles. I’d definitely get one though.
  - acct776 6y ago
    Unless the cars carrying the TikTokers are Volvo or Apple cars monitoring the driver, or driving itself.

spiderfarmer 6y ago

I also hate the fact that cars with “smart” technology start feeling dated after just a handful of years, just like my smartphone. And I’m not planning to commit to a similar upgrade cycle.

foepys 6y ago
If some stories are to be believed then Tesla has sales people that expect Tesla owners to buy a new car after 3-5 years. I don't think that's possible for the vast majority of people. A car should reliably take me for A to B and not lose 70% of its features just because the manufacturer decided to EOL the online service.
- gnicholas 6y ago
  In states like CA, this means paying $4,000 to $10,000 in sales/use tax with each purchase. It’s an incredibly inefficient way to pay for having access to a car. If you’re going to trade in that frequently, it’s probably smarter to lease. (I say this as someone who generally opposes leasing and has never done so.)
  - Someone 6y ago
    It does cost money, but if you sell, you can pass part of that tax on to the buyer, as they’ll want to pay a bit more to avoid having to pay that tax themselves.
    - gnicholas 6y ago
      Huh? They’ll pay sales/use tax on the purchase of your used car as well.
cbozeman 6y ago
I drive a 10 year old vehicle and I feel like it has all the technology I really need or want. I might upgrade to something electric in the future, but I don't feel 'compelled' for any reason. My vehicle's primary purpose is to get me from Point A to Point B. Anything else that gets crammed in there is just more gravy on my meat and potatoes. Help me to understand why the "feeling dated" part of a vehicle is important to you? Or rather, what does a car from 2015 lack, that a car from 2020 has, that you find differentiates them enormously?
- judge2020 6y ago
  Good lane keeping and collision avoidance could be a lifesaver in some situations. Same for having other driver assistance features like good adaptive cruise control and auto-steering - long trips can be less fatiguing when the car is driving itself most of the time.
- jcheng 6y ago
  Our family has a 2012 VW Golf and a 2017 VW Golf. Compared to the former, the latter has a number of worthwhile upgrades. CarPlay makes both navigation and music enormously better. Automatic parallel parking comes in handy for getting into tight spaces, especially when there's pressure from cars waiting behind you. Automated emergency warning/braking has probably saved our 16-year-old from at least one minor accident so far. Radar cruise control definitely lessens fatigue during road trips. None of this is essential, but to me the difference in user experience is notable when going from one car to the other. A year or two ago I had access to a Tesla Model X for a period of time. I remember when the Netflix and YouTube watching features came out; I thought it was the dumbest thing. But then I realized I was spending probably a couple of hours a week sitting in parking lots waiting for my kids to get out of extracurricular activities (pre-covid), or waiting at the cell phone lot at the airport, etc. And having a huge screen and high quality audio to pass the time was pretty nice.
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    Fantastic points. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
ubertoop 6y ago
That, I believe, is a function of one material: PLASTIC. There's just something about plastic that feels cheap and replaceable even when used in a "high end" product. There are toasters from the 50s made in stainless steel that are timeless. Contrast that with the plastic enclosed toasters of the last few decades and it's just no contest.
- tracedddd 6y ago
  The plastic definitely makes modern cars feel dated quickly, but the tech alone ages really fast. Even simple back up cameras that are 3 years old seem really low definition compared to the new birds eye surround cameras. Not to mention the UIs are laggy, and Bluetooth even feels like old tech now. If it doesn’t have CarPlay or equivalent it’s a downgrade.

zadler 6y ago

That would fit really well with their brand and current smartphone business. I wonder what they will do about the issue of people leaving the car dirty.

bognition 6y ago

Please no! No one is asking for ownership to be disrupted, we want someone to disrupt terrible cars. Modern cars are terrible, the UX is horrid, the software never gets updated, and the look and feel of a good middle class car is just trash. I own a model 3 and love it, yes it has some gap problems, yes structurally it might not be as sound as a Toyota but the car is a dream to drive. The experience is so much better than an internal combustion engine that i'll never go back. There's nothing quite like instant torque on the freeway while traveling 80 miles an hour.

geden 6y ago
I’m asking for ownership to be disrupted. It’s insane we all have our own and they have such low utilisation. They are almost always stationary parked somewhere when privately owned.
- acct776 6y ago
  And keeping our in-transit coronavirus molecules contained. The horror.
- ghaff 6y ago
  Your use case is probably different. But the vehicle parked outside my house is one: - Whose features I very deliberately chose - Has a roof rack that can accommodate my canoe and/or kayak - Has all the stuff I carry around with me--especially for northern winter driving And if I want to run to the store right now, I can be on the road in 1 minute. I don't want fractional ownership and I'm sure I'm not unusual. Most of the depreciation is in the miles anyway. And, to the degree it becomes more related to how old the car is, that will be reflected in the costs.
- lambda_dn 6y ago
  Your car is only second in the place you feel comfortable to your home. I'm at work all day (pre covid) and my home is sitting empty 50% of the time, so why should I own a home, maybe I can just sleep in a shared fractionally owned home. Never going to be accepted, by all means electrify cars and make them smarter and have robotaxis for when I can't drive. But the car ownership thing will never go away.

meddlepal 6y ago

Havent you basically just described a lease with no down payment and a flexible cancellation policy?

hnxs 6y ago
sounds amazing and i really want what you’re describing i dont want to buy a new car (new as in replacing my current car,im ok with used cars) because theyre overpriced, but i dont want to lease either due to what i consider bullshit costs, plus lock-in. as a result, ive had the same car since 2009, despite easily being able to afford something new. but fuck that, id rather put that money towards investing
recursive 6y ago
You can't co-lease with a flexible number of other users based on utilization.
- jeffbee 6y ago
  You sort of can. Isn’t belonging to a car share essentially that? The car share leases more or fewer vehicles depending on demand.
  - recursive 6y ago
    Yes. It's just not called a lease. I belonged to one of those for a time. Form some, it's just right.
tracedddd 6y ago
With a bunch of Apple integrations, and you don’t need to park or pick up, available in any major city in the world with a click, sure.

acct776 6y ago

Prototype and expensive motorcycles are self-balancing now. etc The tech always seems to come.

mulmen 6y ago
All motorcycles are self balancing.
- plasticchris 6y ago
  Up to a point. Try letting off the throttle on a sport bike in a turn and see how well it works. Please don't actually do this.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
tracedddd 6y ago
Even so, they’re still dangerous. No one in car crazy America is going to put their kids on an Apple motorcycle and run through rush hour traffic where everyone is watching TikTok videos while driving. Even the wind noise, debris hitting you, and weather considerations alone make it a no-go. Losing a wheel usually means going down. 99% of people strongly value that they will walk away from a crash fine with great probabilities. That simply cannot be said of 2 wheeled vehicles like it can be said of crumple zone air bag equipped 4 wheeled vehicles. I’d definitely get one though.
- acct776 6y ago
  Unless the cars carrying the TikTokers are Volvo or Apple cars monitoring the driver, or driving itself.