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> instead doing everything we can to ensure couples live in a world where they WANT to bring another life into it. Neither of those suggestions actually increa

by Ygg2 6y ago

> instead doing everything we can to ensure couples live in a world where they WANT to bring another life into it. Neither of those suggestions actually increased birth rates, individually or in aggregate. Pretty sure many Scandinavian countries tried all of those, and it had little to no impact on their birth rate. Do you have any source to show improvements to birth rate?

Ericson2314 6y ago
All those things are themselves good, and unplanned families are not good. Falling population is good, working shortages will increase the demand for automation and result in worker dignity. We simply need a fuck-ton of immigration to amortize things a bit, until we get to post-scarcity post-growth steady state in 2100.
- Ygg2 6y ago
  > Falling population is good Depends. If population is falling everywhere, you can't have things like free healthcare or pensions, barring some medical miracle like eternal youth. Even if you allow immigration, you're only draining something else of its population, and that's not sustainable. > working shortages will increase the demand for automation and result in worker dignity. That depends on power distribution. If Amazon automated its processing center, do you think that workers would benefit or just Amazon? Plus what jobs would the newly laid off be given? But giving workers power isn't a solution either. Give them option to choose, and their jobs would never be automated. It's not in their interest to be made expendable. Not to mention the their ego would be bruised if they knew they could be made expendable.
bobthepanda 6y ago
So I don't think any of the above directly increases birth rate, but the one thing that people seem to be in agreement on is cheap/free daycare. Evidence from Quebec suggests that compared to Ontario, the birth rate has increased because of subsidized day care. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/daycare-difference-quebec-fertility-rate-outpacing-ontario-s-1.4018340 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/daycare-difference-quebec-fert... The correlation here at least makes sense, because child-caring is time intensive. So you need one parent to stay at home, or go part-time, or pay out the nose for a nanny/unsubsidized spot, at least in the US.

by Ygg2 6y ago

Ericson2314 6y ago

All those things are themselves good, and unplanned families are not good. Falling population is good, working shortages will increase the demand for automation and result in worker dignity. We simply need a fuck-ton of immigration to amortize things a bit, until we get to post-scarcity post-growth steady state in 2100.

Ygg2 6y ago
> Falling population is good Depends. If population is falling everywhere, you can't have things like free healthcare or pensions, barring some medical miracle like eternal youth. Even if you allow immigration, you're only draining something else of its population, and that's not sustainable. > working shortages will increase the demand for automation and result in worker dignity. That depends on power distribution. If Amazon automated its processing center, do you think that workers would benefit or just Amazon? Plus what jobs would the newly laid off be given? But giving workers power isn't a solution either. Give them option to choose, and their jobs would never be automated. It's not in their interest to be made expendable. Not to mention the their ego would be bruised if they knew they could be made expendable.

bobthepanda 6y ago

So I don't think any of the above directly increases birth rate, but the one thing that people seem to be in agreement on is cheap/free daycare. Evidence from Quebec suggests that compared to Ontario, the birth rate has increased because of subsidized day care. https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/daycare-difference-quebec-fertility-rate-outpacing-ontario-s-1.4018340 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/daycare-difference-quebec-fert... The correlation here at least makes sense, because child-caring is time intensive. So you need one parent to stay at home, or go part-time, or pay out the nose for a nanny/unsubsidized spot, at least in the US.