10 ms·

Apple Car: For Real This Time?

41 points by mpweiher 6y ago

rogerb 6y ago
I like the thinking. I visited the Netherlands, and some of the last mile vehicles I saw there are amazing. Think electrified cargo bikes - stunning and moz def the future :)
behnamoh 6y ago
honestly, who cares anymore? last thing we need is yet another monopoly, this time in the EVs industry. AAPL is known for innovation, but in reality, they just take their time until the other competitors have already solved the main obstacles and sold the idea to customers. Then they swoop in and offer an overpriced luxurious product and claim to be the first and the best in the business.
tracedddd 6y ago
Interesting article, but I disagree with the conclusion. Smart car style vehicles never really caught on. They have a poor user experience. Cramped and they don’t feel very safe. Most people can’t ride a motorcycle either. They’re cool, but Apple isn’t about to target a specialty market with a play like this. I theorize Apple will produce a car, but surprise us by having zero ownership. It’ll be entirely plan based, a service subscription to compete with Uber. They’re just waiting for self driving to be feasible, so there are no drivers required.
- spiderfarmer 6y ago
  I also hate the fact that cars with “smart” technology start feeling dated after just a handful of years, just like my smartphone. And I’m not planning to commit to a similar upgrade cycle.
  - foepys 6y ago
    If some stories are to be believed then Tesla has sales people that expect Tesla owners to buy a new car after 3-5 years. I don't think that's possible for the vast majority of people. A car should reliably take me for A to B and not lose 70% of its features just because the manufacturer decided to EOL the online service.
    - gnicholas 6y ago
      In states like CA, this means paying $4,000 to $10,000 in sales/use tax with each purchase. It’s an incredibly inefficient way to pay for having access to a car. If you’re going to trade in that frequently, it’s probably smarter to lease. (I say this as someone who generally opposes leasing and has never done so.)
      - Someone 6y ago
        It does cost money, but if you sell, you can pass part of that tax on to the buyer, as they’ll want to pay a bit more to avoid having to pay that tax themselves.
        gnicholas 6y ago
        Huh? They’ll pay sales/use tax on the purchase of your used car as well.
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    I drive a 10 year old vehicle and I feel like it has all the technology I really need or want. I might upgrade to something electric in the future, but I don't feel 'compelled' for any reason. My vehicle's primary purpose is to get me from Point A to Point B. Anything else that gets crammed in there is just more gravy on my meat and potatoes. Help me to understand why the "feeling dated" part of a vehicle is important to you? Or rather, what does a car from 2015 lack, that a car from 2020 has, that you find differentiates them enormously?
    - judge2020 6y ago
      Good lane keeping and collision avoidance could be a lifesaver in some situations. Same for having other driver assistance features like good adaptive cruise control and auto-steering - long trips can be less fatiguing when the car is driving itself most of the time.
    - jcheng 6y ago
      Our family has a 2012 VW Golf and a 2017 VW Golf. Compared to the former, the latter has a number of worthwhile upgrades. CarPlay makes both navigation and music enormously better. Automatic parallel parking comes in handy for getting into tight spaces, especially when there's pressure from cars waiting behind you. Automated emergency warning/braking has probably saved our 16-year-old from at least one minor accident so far. Radar cruise control definitely lessens fatigue during road trips. None of this is essential, but to me the difference in user experience is notable when going from one car to the other. A year or two ago I had access to a Tesla Model X for a period of time. I remember when the Netflix and YouTube watching features came out; I thought it was the dumbest thing. But then I realized I was spending probably a couple of hours a week sitting in parking lots waiting for my kids to get out of extracurricular activities (pre-covid), or waiting at the cell phone lot at the airport, etc. And having a huge screen and high quality audio to pass the time was pretty nice.
      - cbozeman 6y ago
        Fantastic points. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
  - ubertoop 6y ago
    That, I believe, is a function of one material: PLASTIC. There's just something about plastic that feels cheap and replaceable even when used in a "high end" product. There are toasters from the 50s made in stainless steel that are timeless. Contrast that with the plastic enclosed toasters of the last few decades and it's just no contest.
    - tracedddd 6y ago
      The plastic definitely makes modern cars feel dated quickly, but the tech alone ages really fast. Even simple back up cameras that are 3 years old seem really low definition compared to the new birds eye surround cameras. Not to mention the UIs are laggy, and Bluetooth even feels like old tech now. If it doesn’t have CarPlay or equivalent it’s a downgrade.
- zadler 6y ago
  That would fit really well with their brand and current smartphone business. I wonder what they will do about the issue of people leaving the car dirty.
- bognition 6y ago
  Please no! No one is asking for ownership to be disrupted, we want someone to disrupt terrible cars. Modern cars are terrible, the UX is horrid, the software never gets updated, and the look and feel of a good middle class car is just trash. I own a model 3 and love it, yes it has some gap problems, yes structurally it might not be as sound as a Toyota but the car is a dream to drive. The experience is so much better than an internal combustion engine that i'll never go back. There's nothing quite like instant torque on the freeway while traveling 80 miles an hour.
  - geden 6y ago
    I’m asking for ownership to be disrupted. It’s insane we all have our own and they have such low utilisation. They are almost always stationary parked somewhere when privately owned.
    - acct776 6y ago
      And keeping our in-transit coronavirus molecules contained. The horror.
    - ghaff 6y ago
      Your use case is probably different. But the vehicle parked outside my house is one: - Whose features I very deliberately chose - Has a roof rack that can accommodate my canoe and/or kayak - Has all the stuff I carry around with me--especially for northern winter driving And if I want to run to the store right now, I can be on the road in 1 minute. I don't want fractional ownership and I'm sure I'm not unusual. Most of the depreciation is in the miles anyway. And, to the degree it becomes more related to how old the car is, that will be reflected in the costs.
    - lambda_dn 6y ago
      Your car is only second in the place you feel comfortable to your home. I'm at work all day (pre covid) and my home is sitting empty 50% of the time, so why should I own a home, maybe I can just sleep in a shared fractionally owned home. Never going to be accepted, by all means electrify cars and make them smarter and have robotaxis for when I can't drive. But the car ownership thing will never go away.
- meddlepal 6y ago
  Havent you basically just described a lease with no down payment and a flexible cancellation policy?
  - hnxs 6y ago
    sounds amazing and i really want what you’re describing i dont want to buy a new car (new as in replacing my current car,im ok with used cars) because theyre overpriced, but i dont want to lease either due to what i consider bullshit costs, plus lock-in. as a result, ive had the same car since 2009, despite easily being able to afford something new. but fuck that, id rather put that money towards investing
  - recursive 6y ago
    You can't co-lease with a flexible number of other users based on utilization.
    - jeffbee 6y ago
      You sort of can. Isn’t belonging to a car share essentially that? The car share leases more or fewer vehicles depending on demand.
      - recursive 6y ago
        Yes. It's just not called a lease. I belonged to one of those for a time. Form some, it's just right.
  - tracedddd 6y ago
    With a bunch of Apple integrations, and you don’t need to park or pick up, available in any major city in the world with a click, sure.
- acct776 6y ago
  Prototype and expensive motorcycles are self-balancing now. etc The tech always seems to come.
  - mulmen 6y ago
    All motorcycles are self balancing.
    - plasticchris 6y ago
      Up to a point. Try letting off the throttle on a sport bike in a turn and see how well it works. Please don't actually do this.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]
  - tracedddd 6y ago
    Even so, they’re still dangerous. No one in car crazy America is going to put their kids on an Apple motorcycle and run through rush hour traffic where everyone is watching TikTok videos while driving. Even the wind noise, debris hitting you, and weather considerations alone make it a no-go. Losing a wheel usually means going down. 99% of people strongly value that they will walk away from a crash fine with great probabilities. That simply cannot be said of 2 wheeled vehicles like it can be said of crumple zone air bag equipped 4 wheeled vehicles. I’d definitely get one though.
    - acct776 6y ago
      Unless the cars carrying the TikTokers are Volvo or Apple cars monitoring the driver, or driving itself.
galkk 6y ago
I can imagine that if Tesla is really moving to Texas, there are enough people who'd like to stay closer to Bay Area, and Cupertino is an option.
ethbr0 6y ago
Reasons Apple won't build a car: (1) low margin industry, (2) diverse, well-capitalized, experienced legacy players, (3) fundamentally different business model, (4) limited technical ability to differentiate (that integration doesn't already provide), etc. Reasons Apple will build a car: (1) it's one of the few industries big enough to move their revenue needle, (2) it's one of the few greenfield physical platforms that their cloud competitors (Facebook, Amazon, Google, Microsoft) don't own a major stake in (from this perspective, think of it as XBox-for-Apple). With the Biden win, the only way I see Apple going into cars in a big way is if it's fully electric, speaks to an environmentalist company ethos, and is a low-volume, high-margin product (e.g. Tesla Roadster) that's effectively subsidized PR & marketing spend and lets them make presentations about it for the next 5+ years. Which seems like an awful lot of R&D and product polish dollars and hours to spend, and I think would say more about their alternate options (or lack thereof) than how attractive building a car is.
- onethought 6y ago
  Your reasons apply equally well to the phone industry before the iPhone came out. Apple could easily do this...
  - ethbr0 6y ago
    Substantially different circumstances. Existing phones vs iPhone Existing cars vs iCar I can't construct a plausible scenario where Apple vs Hyundai + VW + BMW + Mercedes + Ferrari + Porsche + Tesla looks anything like Apple vs Palm. There's just not that much difference between (hypothetically optimal and technically possible driving experience) and (current driving experience). Apple has historically excelled in areas where they're able to offer an improved (usually by integration of existent technologies, at scale) hardware platform coupled with a well-integrated software interface. Cars, ain't that.
    - onethought 6y ago
      Apple vs Palm??? What about: Sony, Ericson, Nokia, Motorola, LG, Samsung, HTC? Palm were like the Tesla of the day in phone land.
judge2020 6y ago
I find it amusing that people try creating these concept cars purely based on what already exists and slapping the brand's logo on the front. Like the early Cybertruck mockups[0], without any actual leaks, it's just a shot in the dark. Note: not trying to dig on this guy's work, creating such a complete concept is good work, but speculating on the design feels pointless. 0: https://emrehusmen.myportfolio.com/tesla-pickup https://emrehusmen.myportfolio.com/tesla-pickup
pedalpete 6y ago
I'm surprised the article doesn't mention the (Sony Electric Car)[https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/8/21056404/sony-vision-s-electric-concept-prototype-first-look-ces-2020 https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/8/21056404/sony-vision-s-ele...}. Sony isn't getting into building cars either, they did this partially as a design exercise and to help them understand the needs of their customers, who are the car manufacturers using Sony chips. Apple is in the auto industry with Apple Auto, and it's entirely possible they are building cars to not be constrained by the design of what the car makers are supplying, like reference design for PCs that intel makes. Intel was never going to make a laptop, but it helps them better understand the market, and sell more of their products, if they have a deep understanding of, and can help their customers sell/use more of Intel's product. I haven't used Apple Auto, but I assume they don't have much of a leg-up on Android Auto, and with Volvo using Android as the OS for it's cars now, I'm sure Apple is looking at the opportunity for deeper integration and Apple Auto only features they may be able to develop with auto makers
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  That's an interesting point. The amount of electronics in cars has increased massively in recent years. They probably see a growing opportunity there because the car manufacturers aren't very good at it.
BluSyn 6y ago
Apple's "Car" will not be a traditional "Car". I don't know why so many keep thinking this will be the case. Completely remove all those assumptions you have about what a car is today, and think what it will be in 10 years. As Jobs said, go to where the puck will be. All the predictions out there are 100% wrong, inaccurate, and lazy. Apple will NOT release a "car" as you currently know it. It will be software on wheels; it will be an entertainment system, work/social hub, and by accident happen to take you places. It won't have a steering wheel. It won't need maintenance or a dealership network like traditional auto makers. It won't need insurance or even a drivers' license to own, because you won't be operating it. There's a good chance you won't even be able to OWN it. Those future profit margins exist is the future automatous taxi fleet, the entertainment system, and the ecosystem that exists inside and around the car as a product. There's so much potential here if you just forget what you already know. Yes, Apple will partner with some existing manufacture to produce the car (like they do with existing products). No, it won't be based on any existing platform, it will be built from the ground up, both hardware and software, and be totally unlike anything that currently exists. Apple is laser focused on one thing: the end user experience -- take the user somewhere, with as little input as possible, and wow the consumer with something so profound they didn't even know they wanted it; instantly make everything before look so old and clunky you will never look back. Think back to UX 101: All user input is error.
- actuator 6y ago
  Isn't this exactly Waymo's playbook? Not saying Apple won't do a better job at it, but it sounds exactly what Waymo seems to be aiming for.
  - BluSyn 6y ago
    Yes. Unfortunately Waymo continues to act more like an R&D company not a product company. Ultimately I don't think Waymo will be a major player when it all shakes out.
    - actuator 6y ago
      I actually like Waymo's cautious slow roll out of self driving compared to what Tesla seems to be doing. I agree with your larger point though. I don't know what Waymo is doing internally but we haven't seen a complete product vision outside.
rasz 6y ago
Remember first Apple phone? It was Motorola ROKR E1 "iTunes phone" https://www.cultofmac.com/444315/apple-history-motorola-rokr-e1/ https://www.cultofmac.com/444315/apple-history-motorola-rokr... mediocre phone with many stupid restrictions. Released to test the waters and establish relationships. Apple in talks with Hyundai reminds me of that play. Release Kia with full Apple integration, maybe little 'by Apple' on the back and test the waters while learning by doing. second iteration will be the real deal manufactured by someone else entirely.
mgkimsal 6y ago
"Would it fit the company’s profit profile? Tesla achieved close to 20% Gross Margin in 2020, GM came in at 10% and Ford about 12%. Apple’s Gross Margin exceeded 38%, a different game." The opportunity to integrate in to peoples' lives - and the services revenue that would continue - may make up for a, say, 15% gross margin on the initial car. No? Maybe?
- deathgrips 6y ago
  Would you rather earn $50k at a 20% profit margin or $50 billion at a 2% profit margin?
Tiktaalik 6y ago
Would be a bit disappointing for a supposedly environmentalist company as Apple to get into automobile development. We should be trying everything we can to limit automobile development. Of course for as environmentalist as Apple insists they are, they built a typical automobile oriented new campus with heaps of parking space...
- diveanon 6y ago
  There is nothing environmentally friendly about apple besides their marketing efforts. They are a massive company the generates enormous amounts of ewaste on a yearly basis through planned obsolescence.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    That happens to be better than nearly all their competition. Good luck updating your Android phone after a couple of years.
    - thewindowmovie5 6y ago
      Ah the good old "the competitors are even worse, so Apple is environment friendly" argument.
      - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
        I take it you use no technology then.
    - diveanon 6y ago
      I still use every android phone I have ever bought for various home automation tasks. Apple is a marketing company that sells computers, and apparently you have bought the pitch that they are somehow better for the environment because of what exactly? Get off your high horse and just admit you enjoy a premium product for it's features and stop pretending it has anything to do with the environment.

41 points by mpweiher 6y ago

I like the thinking. I visited the Netherlands, and some of the last mile vehicles I saw there are amazing. Think electrified cargo bikes - stunning and moz def the future :)

behnamoh 6y ago

honestly, who cares anymore? last thing we need is yet another monopoly, this time in the EVs industry. AAPL is known for innovation, but in reality, they just take their time until the other competitors have already solved the main obstacles and sold the idea to customers. Then they swoop in and offer an overpriced luxurious product and claim to be the first and the best in the business.

tracedddd 6y ago

Interesting article, but I disagree with the conclusion. Smart car style vehicles never really caught on. They have a poor user experience. Cramped and they don’t feel very safe. Most people can’t ride a motorcycle either. They’re cool, but Apple isn’t about to target a specialty market with a play like this. I theorize Apple will produce a car, but surprise us by having zero ownership. It’ll be entirely plan based, a service subscription to compete with Uber. They’re just waiting for self driving to be feasible, so there are no drivers required.

spiderfarmer 6y ago
I also hate the fact that cars with “smart” technology start feeling dated after just a handful of years, just like my smartphone. And I’m not planning to commit to a similar upgrade cycle.
- foepys 6y ago
  If some stories are to be believed then Tesla has sales people that expect Tesla owners to buy a new car after 3-5 years. I don't think that's possible for the vast majority of people. A car should reliably take me for A to B and not lose 70% of its features just because the manufacturer decided to EOL the online service.
  - gnicholas 6y ago
    In states like CA, this means paying $4,000 to $10,000 in sales/use tax with each purchase. It’s an incredibly inefficient way to pay for having access to a car. If you’re going to trade in that frequently, it’s probably smarter to lease. (I say this as someone who generally opposes leasing and has never done so.)
    - Someone 6y ago
      It does cost money, but if you sell, you can pass part of that tax on to the buyer, as they’ll want to pay a bit more to avoid having to pay that tax themselves.
      - gnicholas 6y ago
        Huh? They’ll pay sales/use tax on the purchase of your used car as well.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  I drive a 10 year old vehicle and I feel like it has all the technology I really need or want. I might upgrade to something electric in the future, but I don't feel 'compelled' for any reason. My vehicle's primary purpose is to get me from Point A to Point B. Anything else that gets crammed in there is just more gravy on my meat and potatoes. Help me to understand why the "feeling dated" part of a vehicle is important to you? Or rather, what does a car from 2015 lack, that a car from 2020 has, that you find differentiates them enormously?
  - judge2020 6y ago
    Good lane keeping and collision avoidance could be a lifesaver in some situations. Same for having other driver assistance features like good adaptive cruise control and auto-steering - long trips can be less fatiguing when the car is driving itself most of the time.
  - jcheng 6y ago
    Our family has a 2012 VW Golf and a 2017 VW Golf. Compared to the former, the latter has a number of worthwhile upgrades. CarPlay makes both navigation and music enormously better. Automatic parallel parking comes in handy for getting into tight spaces, especially when there's pressure from cars waiting behind you. Automated emergency warning/braking has probably saved our 16-year-old from at least one minor accident so far. Radar cruise control definitely lessens fatigue during road trips. None of this is essential, but to me the difference in user experience is notable when going from one car to the other. A year or two ago I had access to a Tesla Model X for a period of time. I remember when the Netflix and YouTube watching features came out; I thought it was the dumbest thing. But then I realized I was spending probably a couple of hours a week sitting in parking lots waiting for my kids to get out of extracurricular activities (pre-covid), or waiting at the cell phone lot at the airport, etc. And having a huge screen and high quality audio to pass the time was pretty nice.
    - cbozeman 6y ago
      Fantastic points. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
- ubertoop 6y ago
  That, I believe, is a function of one material: PLASTIC. There's just something about plastic that feels cheap and replaceable even when used in a "high end" product. There are toasters from the 50s made in stainless steel that are timeless. Contrast that with the plastic enclosed toasters of the last few decades and it's just no contest.
  - tracedddd 6y ago
    The plastic definitely makes modern cars feel dated quickly, but the tech alone ages really fast. Even simple back up cameras that are 3 years old seem really low definition compared to the new birds eye surround cameras. Not to mention the UIs are laggy, and Bluetooth even feels like old tech now. If it doesn’t have CarPlay or equivalent it’s a downgrade.
zadler 6y ago
That would fit really well with their brand and current smartphone business. I wonder what they will do about the issue of people leaving the car dirty.
bognition 6y ago
Please no! No one is asking for ownership to be disrupted, we want someone to disrupt terrible cars. Modern cars are terrible, the UX is horrid, the software never gets updated, and the look and feel of a good middle class car is just trash. I own a model 3 and love it, yes it has some gap problems, yes structurally it might not be as sound as a Toyota but the car is a dream to drive. The experience is so much better than an internal combustion engine that i'll never go back. There's nothing quite like instant torque on the freeway while traveling 80 miles an hour.
- geden 6y ago
  I’m asking for ownership to be disrupted. It’s insane we all have our own and they have such low utilisation. They are almost always stationary parked somewhere when privately owned.
  - acct776 6y ago
    And keeping our in-transit coronavirus molecules contained. The horror.
  - ghaff 6y ago
    Your use case is probably different. But the vehicle parked outside my house is one: - Whose features I very deliberately chose - Has a roof rack that can accommodate my canoe and/or kayak - Has all the stuff I carry around with me--especially for northern winter driving And if I want to run to the store right now, I can be on the road in 1 minute. I don't want fractional ownership and I'm sure I'm not unusual. Most of the depreciation is in the miles anyway. And, to the degree it becomes more related to how old the car is, that will be reflected in the costs.
  - lambda_dn 6y ago
    Your car is only second in the place you feel comfortable to your home. I'm at work all day (pre covid) and my home is sitting empty 50% of the time, so why should I own a home, maybe I can just sleep in a shared fractionally owned home. Never going to be accepted, by all means electrify cars and make them smarter and have robotaxis for when I can't drive. But the car ownership thing will never go away.
meddlepal 6y ago
Havent you basically just described a lease with no down payment and a flexible cancellation policy?
- hnxs 6y ago
  sounds amazing and i really want what you’re describing i dont want to buy a new car (new as in replacing my current car,im ok with used cars) because theyre overpriced, but i dont want to lease either due to what i consider bullshit costs, plus lock-in. as a result, ive had the same car since 2009, despite easily being able to afford something new. but fuck that, id rather put that money towards investing
- recursive 6y ago
  You can't co-lease with a flexible number of other users based on utilization.
  - jeffbee 6y ago
    You sort of can. Isn’t belonging to a car share essentially that? The car share leases more or fewer vehicles depending on demand.
    - recursive 6y ago
      Yes. It's just not called a lease. I belonged to one of those for a time. Form some, it's just right.
- tracedddd 6y ago
  With a bunch of Apple integrations, and you don’t need to park or pick up, available in any major city in the world with a click, sure.
acct776 6y ago
Prototype and expensive motorcycles are self-balancing now. etc The tech always seems to come.
- mulmen 6y ago
  All motorcycles are self balancing.
  - plasticchris 6y ago
    Up to a point. Try letting off the throttle on a sport bike in a turn and see how well it works. Please don't actually do this.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- tracedddd 6y ago
  Even so, they’re still dangerous. No one in car crazy America is going to put their kids on an Apple motorcycle and run through rush hour traffic where everyone is watching TikTok videos while driving. Even the wind noise, debris hitting you, and weather considerations alone make it a no-go. Losing a wheel usually means going down. 99% of people strongly value that they will walk away from a crash fine with great probabilities. That simply cannot be said of 2 wheeled vehicles like it can be said of crumple zone air bag equipped 4 wheeled vehicles. I’d definitely get one though.
  - acct776 6y ago
    Unless the cars carrying the TikTokers are Volvo or Apple cars monitoring the driver, or driving itself.

galkk 6y ago

I can imagine that if Tesla is really moving to Texas, there are enough people who'd like to stay closer to Bay Area, and Cupertino is an option.

ethbr0 6y ago

Reasons Apple won't build a car: (1) low margin industry, (2) diverse, well-capitalized, experienced legacy players, (3) fundamentally different business model, (4) limited technical ability to differentiate (that integration doesn't already provide), etc. Reasons Apple will build a car: (1) it's one of the few industries big enough to move their revenue needle, (2) it's one of the few greenfield physical platforms that their cloud competitors (Facebook, Amazon, Google, Microsoft) don't own a major stake in (from this perspective, think of it as XBox-for-Apple). With the Biden win, the only way I see Apple going into cars in a big way is if it's fully electric, speaks to an environmentalist company ethos, and is a low-volume, high-margin product (e.g. Tesla Roadster) that's effectively subsidized PR & marketing spend and lets them make presentations about it for the next 5+ years. Which seems like an awful lot of R&D and product polish dollars and hours to spend, and I think would say more about their alternate options (or lack thereof) than how attractive building a car is.

onethought 6y ago
Your reasons apply equally well to the phone industry before the iPhone came out. Apple could easily do this...
- ethbr0 6y ago
  Substantially different circumstances. Existing phones vs iPhone Existing cars vs iCar I can't construct a plausible scenario where Apple vs Hyundai + VW + BMW + Mercedes + Ferrari + Porsche + Tesla looks anything like Apple vs Palm. There's just not that much difference between (hypothetically optimal and technically possible driving experience) and (current driving experience). Apple has historically excelled in areas where they're able to offer an improved (usually by integration of existent technologies, at scale) hardware platform coupled with a well-integrated software interface. Cars, ain't that.
  - onethought 6y ago
    Apple vs Palm??? What about: Sony, Ericson, Nokia, Motorola, LG, Samsung, HTC? Palm were like the Tesla of the day in phone land.

judge2020 6y ago

I find it amusing that people try creating these concept cars purely based on what already exists and slapping the brand's logo on the front. Like the early Cybertruck mockups[0], without any actual leaks, it's just a shot in the dark. Note: not trying to dig on this guy's work, creating such a complete concept is good work, but speculating on the design feels pointless. 0: https://emrehusmen.myportfolio.com/tesla-pickup https://emrehusmen.myportfolio.com/tesla-pickup

pedalpete 6y ago

I'm surprised the article doesn't mention the (Sony Electric Car)[https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/8/21056404/sony-vision-s-electric-concept-prototype-first-look-ces-2020 https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/8/21056404/sony-vision-s-ele...}. Sony isn't getting into building cars either, they did this partially as a design exercise and to help them understand the needs of their customers, who are the car manufacturers using Sony chips. Apple is in the auto industry with Apple Auto, and it's entirely possible they are building cars to not be constrained by the design of what the car makers are supplying, like reference design for PCs that intel makes. Intel was never going to make a laptop, but it helps them better understand the market, and sell more of their products, if they have a deep understanding of, and can help their customers sell/use more of Intel's product. I haven't used Apple Auto, but I assume they don't have much of a leg-up on Android Auto, and with Volvo using Android as the OS for it's cars now, I'm sure Apple is looking at the opportunity for deeper integration and Apple Auto only features they may be able to develop with auto makers

tonyedgecombe 6y ago
That's an interesting point. The amount of electronics in cars has increased massively in recent years. They probably see a growing opportunity there because the car manufacturers aren't very good at it.

BluSyn 6y ago

Apple's "Car" will not be a traditional "Car". I don't know why so many keep thinking this will be the case. Completely remove all those assumptions you have about what a car is today, and think what it will be in 10 years. As Jobs said, go to where the puck will be. All the predictions out there are 100% wrong, inaccurate, and lazy. Apple will NOT release a "car" as you currently know it. It will be software on wheels; it will be an entertainment system, work/social hub, and by accident happen to take you places. It won't have a steering wheel. It won't need maintenance or a dealership network like traditional auto makers. It won't need insurance or even a drivers' license to own, because you won't be operating it. There's a good chance you won't even be able to OWN it. Those future profit margins exist is the future automatous taxi fleet, the entertainment system, and the ecosystem that exists inside and around the car as a product. There's so much potential here if you just forget what you already know. Yes, Apple will partner with some existing manufacture to produce the car (like they do with existing products). No, it won't be based on any existing platform, it will be built from the ground up, both hardware and software, and be totally unlike anything that currently exists. Apple is laser focused on one thing: the end user experience -- take the user somewhere, with as little input as possible, and wow the consumer with something so profound they didn't even know they wanted it; instantly make everything before look so old and clunky you will never look back. Think back to UX 101: All user input is error.

actuator 6y ago
Isn't this exactly Waymo's playbook? Not saying Apple won't do a better job at it, but it sounds exactly what Waymo seems to be aiming for.
- BluSyn 6y ago
  Yes. Unfortunately Waymo continues to act more like an R&D company not a product company. Ultimately I don't think Waymo will be a major player when it all shakes out.
  - actuator 6y ago
    I actually like Waymo's cautious slow roll out of self driving compared to what Tesla seems to be doing. I agree with your larger point though. I don't know what Waymo is doing internally but we haven't seen a complete product vision outside.

rasz 6y ago

Remember first Apple phone? It was Motorola ROKR E1 "iTunes phone" https://www.cultofmac.com/444315/apple-history-motorola-rokr-e1/ https://www.cultofmac.com/444315/apple-history-motorola-rokr... mediocre phone with many stupid restrictions. Released to test the waters and establish relationships. Apple in talks with Hyundai reminds me of that play. Release Kia with full Apple integration, maybe little 'by Apple' on the back and test the waters while learning by doing. second iteration will be the real deal manufactured by someone else entirely.

mgkimsal 6y ago

"Would it fit the company’s profit profile? Tesla achieved close to 20% Gross Margin in 2020, GM came in at 10% and Ford about 12%. Apple’s Gross Margin exceeded 38%, a different game." The opportunity to integrate in to peoples' lives - and the services revenue that would continue - may make up for a, say, 15% gross margin on the initial car. No? Maybe?

deathgrips 6y ago
Would you rather earn $50k at a 20% profit margin or $50 billion at a 2% profit margin?

Tiktaalik 6y ago

Would be a bit disappointing for a supposedly environmentalist company as Apple to get into automobile development. We should be trying everything we can to limit automobile development. Of course for as environmentalist as Apple insists they are, they built a typical automobile oriented new campus with heaps of parking space...

diveanon 6y ago
There is nothing environmentally friendly about apple besides their marketing efforts. They are a massive company the generates enormous amounts of ewaste on a yearly basis through planned obsolescence.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  That happens to be better than nearly all their competition. Good luck updating your Android phone after a couple of years.
  - thewindowmovie5 6y ago
    Ah the good old "the competitors are even worse, so Apple is environment friendly" argument.
    - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
      I take it you use no technology then.
  - diveanon 6y ago
    I still use every android phone I have ever bought for various home automation tasks. Apple is a marketing company that sells computers, and apparently you have bought the pitch that they are somehow better for the environment because of what exactly? Get off your high horse and just admit you enjoy a premium product for it's features and stop pretending it has anything to do with the environment.