4 ms·

You're comparing end-user energy cost with production costs. These are not the same ! The cost you're comparing (0.17€/kWh) includes transmission costs (Enedi

by Faaak 6y ago

You're comparing end-user energy cost with production costs. These are not the same ! The cost you're comparing (0.17€/kWh) includes transmission costs (Enedis + EDF), taxes (CSPE, ...) AND the energy cost (~0.06€/kwh, market rate). You cannot compare costs between countries like that, because taxes are different and transmission costs too. You must compare market rate costs (from eex for example).

belorn 6y ago
A fair comparison would take a per population approach and compare similar environmental regions, and calculate the cost of supplying that region and population with the energy demand over the span of years. It is however not that hard to do since the energy market basically operate already on this principle. Energy companies bid on supplying a specific demand in the future, and the bid that is lowest win. That bid also include if I understand it right the cost of transmission. The practical end result is that different companies win the bid depending on all the variations that makes energy production commercial viable. A solar plant that is not producing enough energy because of weather conditions is not going to put in a bid, and thus the fossil fueled power plant wins the bid and the outcome is pollution. The more times fossil fueled power plants win, the more economical incentives there are to build more fossil fueled power plants, and the more pollution we get in the air. The only way to have a non-polluting power grid is to either outlaw fossil fueled plants from bidding, or make sure that there is always an pollution free alternative that has an economical reason to make a lower bid. Nuclear, renewables, batteries, solar, wind, carbon taxes or what have you, as long as fossil fueled power plants can manage to make the lowest bid we have a problem.
flavius29663 6y ago
Except Germany is doing all sorts of accounting maneuvers to hide the high cost of renewables. They say they have a low wholesale price and the final price is high just because of taxes, but in the end you pay so many taxes that end up in the renewable subsidies in different forms.
sergeykish 6y ago
Total price: 30.43 ct/kWh* Supplier’s cost (23%) Grid charges (24%) Renewable energy surcharge (21%) Sales (value-added) tax (16 %) Electricity tax (7 %) Concession levy (5%) Offshore liability levy (1.3%) https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/what-german-households-pay-power https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/what-german-house...

by Faaak 6y ago

belorn 6y ago

A fair comparison would take a per population approach and compare similar environmental regions, and calculate the cost of supplying that region and population with the energy demand over the span of years. It is however not that hard to do since the energy market basically operate already on this principle. Energy companies bid on supplying a specific demand in the future, and the bid that is lowest win. That bid also include if I understand it right the cost of transmission. The practical end result is that different companies win the bid depending on all the variations that makes energy production commercial viable. A solar plant that is not producing enough energy because of weather conditions is not going to put in a bid, and thus the fossil fueled power plant wins the bid and the outcome is pollution. The more times fossil fueled power plants win, the more economical incentives there are to build more fossil fueled power plants, and the more pollution we get in the air. The only way to have a non-polluting power grid is to either outlaw fossil fueled plants from bidding, or make sure that there is always an pollution free alternative that has an economical reason to make a lower bid. Nuclear, renewables, batteries, solar, wind, carbon taxes or what have you, as long as fossil fueled power plants can manage to make the lowest bid we have a problem.

flavius29663 6y ago

Except Germany is doing all sorts of accounting maneuvers to hide the high cost of renewables. They say they have a low wholesale price and the final price is high just because of taxes, but in the end you pay so many taxes that end up in the renewable subsidies in different forms.

sergeykish 6y ago

Total price: 30.43 ct/kWh* Supplier’s cost (23%) Grid charges (24%) Renewable energy surcharge (21%) Sales (value-added) tax (16 %) Electricity tax (7 %) Concession levy (5%) Offshore liability levy (1.3%) https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/what-german-households-pay-power https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/what-german-house...