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>testosterone keeps falling consecutively every year in developed countries. We don’t know why. the more developed the society is the less valuable are the t

by trhway 6y ago

>testosterone keeps falling consecutively every year in developed countries. We don’t know why. the more developed the society is the less valuable are the testosterone benefits like the ability for heavy physical work in harsh conditions, etc. and the less tolerance the society has for the testosterone driven behavior - thus natural selection drives testosterone down. For example when you have a car accident, display of rage would put you in a losing position in US where you just need to exchange insurance info, and your higher muscle mass and hand-to-hand combat skills decide nothing, whereis for example in Russia the rage is a synergetic addition to the metal tire tool in you hand displayed as a credible threat. Another correlation which would suggest why testosterone would be selected out from government and management positions in developed societies: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/kykl.12169 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/kykl.12169 " To measure testosterone exposure, we apply the facial width‐to‐height metric (fWHR) – a standard proxy widely used in the psychological literature – and look at a sample of Russian regional governors. We find a positive relationship between the fWHR of the governor and the level of repression in his region. "

throwaway8822 6y ago
Please stop repeating the "testosterone==aggressiveness" falsehood. There isn't a 1:1 correlation. Humans are way more complex than that. > thus natural selection drives testosterone down Also you are implying that natural selection is currently existing in human society. It does not. ...and that such selection works so fast that it changes human genome within a generation of two. This is simply impossible.
- trhway 6y ago
  >Please stop repeating the "testosterone==aggressiveness" falsehood. There isn't a 1:1 correlation. i didn't say "==". I stated "->", i.e. positive causality from testosterone to aggressiveness (The opposite is obviously not true as evidenced by aggressiveness without testosterone, say in women). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/#:~:text=There%20is%20evidence%20that%20testosterone,aggressive%20phases%20of%20sports%20games https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/#:~:tex.... "Atavistic residues of aggressive behavior prevailing in animal life, determined by testosterone, remain attenuated in man and suppressed through familial and social inhibitions. However, it still manifests itself in various intensities and forms from; thoughts, anger, verbal aggressiveness, competition, dominance behavior, to physical violence. Testosterone plays a significant role in the arousal of these behavioral manifestations in the brain centers involved in aggression and on the development of the muscular system that enables their realization. There is evidence that testosterone levels are higher in individuals with aggressive behavior, such as prisoners who have committed violent crimes." >Also you are implying that natural selection is currently existing in human society. It does not. natural selection never stops. Some people naively think that the "fittest" necessarily means strongest/healthiest/etc. which is just not the case. So, then it comes to the drivers, one can say that societal natural selection is less "natural" (in that very naive understanding of it) and more like selective dog breeding and similarly it works very fast. Add to that the positive feedback between testosterone production and testosterone style behavior - ie. the more testosteronish style behavior of an individual causes more testosterone production in his body and vise versa (that famous barn swallow experiment where they painted the male bird chests dark to fake high testosterone characteristic or the article referred above: "Several field studies have also shown that testosterone levels increase during the aggressive phases of sports games. In more sensitive laboratory paradigms, it has been observed that participant’s testosterone rises in the winners of; competitions, dominance trials or in confrontations with factitious opponents.").

by trhway 6y ago

throwaway8822 6y ago

Please stop repeating the "testosterone==aggressiveness" falsehood. There isn't a 1:1 correlation. Humans are way more complex than that. > thus natural selection drives testosterone down Also you are implying that natural selection is currently existing in human society. It does not. ...and that such selection works so fast that it changes human genome within a generation of two. This is simply impossible.

trhway 6y ago
>Please stop repeating the "testosterone==aggressiveness" falsehood. There isn't a 1:1 correlation. i didn't say "==". I stated "->", i.e. positive causality from testosterone to aggressiveness (The opposite is obviously not true as evidenced by aggressiveness without testosterone, say in women). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/#:~:text=There%20is%20evidence%20that%20testosterone,aggressive%20phases%20of%20sports%20games https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693622/#:~:tex.... "Atavistic residues of aggressive behavior prevailing in animal life, determined by testosterone, remain attenuated in man and suppressed through familial and social inhibitions. However, it still manifests itself in various intensities and forms from; thoughts, anger, verbal aggressiveness, competition, dominance behavior, to physical violence. Testosterone plays a significant role in the arousal of these behavioral manifestations in the brain centers involved in aggression and on the development of the muscular system that enables their realization. There is evidence that testosterone levels are higher in individuals with aggressive behavior, such as prisoners who have committed violent crimes." >Also you are implying that natural selection is currently existing in human society. It does not. natural selection never stops. Some people naively think that the "fittest" necessarily means strongest/healthiest/etc. which is just not the case. So, then it comes to the drivers, one can say that societal natural selection is less "natural" (in that very naive understanding of it) and more like selective dog breeding and similarly it works very fast. Add to that the positive feedback between testosterone production and testosterone style behavior - ie. the more testosteronish style behavior of an individual causes more testosterone production in his body and vise versa (that famous barn swallow experiment where they painted the male bird chests dark to fake high testosterone characteristic or the article referred above: "Several field studies have also shown that testosterone levels increase during the aggressive phases of sports games. In more sensitive laboratory paradigms, it has been observed that participant’s testosterone rises in the winners of; competitions, dominance trials or in confrontations with factitious opponents.").