4 ms·

>A vision of the future, perhaps, in a post-peak world: smaller populations crowding ever more tightly into urban centres. And outside, beyond the city limits,

>A vision of the future, perhaps, in a post-peak world: smaller populations crowding ever more tightly into urban centres. And outside, beyond the city limits, the wild animals prowling. That seems inevitably tied to the increasing specialization and efficiency of agriculture. What was the original reason for humans to spread out in rural area, if not to get some farming land for yourself? Economic activity isn't much tied to land use anymore. It's seems hard to fathom any reason why would humans just go back to rural areas if not for some unforeseen technology to make this sensible, considering all the advantages living close to large metropolitan areas provide – and no, WFH isn't it.

enkid 6y ago
Some people like living in nature. With utilities already built out or alternatives like solar power for electricity and starlink for internet, people could untether themselves from urban areas all together.
deleted 6y ago
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frabbit 6y ago
Dark skies, peace, quiet. All these make me enjoy being away from conurbations. I especially dislike the lack of darkness in winter.
anewaccount2021 6y ago
A future rural home will have off-grid power (solar + power wall), off-grid internet (starlink) and off-grid water is already solved. Why again do I need to be packed and stacked? And why do we keep talking about urban life as aspirational? Many of those currently leaving SF and NYC are wealthy enough to move on a whim. These aren't flights of desperation. Why are wealthy people leaving?
- jacobolus 6y ago
  > Many of those currently leaving SF and NYC are wealthy enough ... Why are wealthy people leaving? Maybe you have noticed a worldwide event this past year that temporarily impedes many of the activities people moved to SF and NYC to enjoy? But anecdotally, most of the people I know who have left SF in the past several years were not especially wealthy (by SF standards at least) and have growing children. (This is a biased selection, since I spent lots of time at the playground.) The reasons for leaving included: rent-controlled apartment felt too small but moving to a market-rate bigger apartment was unaffordable; child care was too expensive compared to free help someplace else from grandparents / extended family; parents wanted their children to experience a suburban childhood similar to their own; parents didn't want to send their children to schools alongside poor children, but couldn't afford or didn't want to pay for private school, so preferred to move to a less economically diverse school district; parent's temporary city job finished, and the newly found job happened to be somewhere else. The wealthier families I know have been less likely to move, since they either have a big enough home or can afford to move to one; can afford to pay for nannies etc., or can afford to have one parent stay home; can afford private school if they want; have more permanent jobs or an easier time finding a new job in the same area; ...
  - anewaccount2021 6y ago
    So you follow your initial argument that the exodus is covid-driven with a list of reasons not related to covid at all. So, we agree? People who are moving are those who can afford to. And if you knew how SF schools worked, you wouldn't have written your last sentence. You leave SF schools to escape diversity - its a lottery system.
    - jacobolus 6y ago
      The people I know who have left specifically due to Covid are young professionals, either single or childless couples. Yes, they could easily afford to move. > You leave SF schools to escape diversity That is exactly what I said. This gets euphemistically phrased as "The test scores are too low. I don't want my kid at a failing school."
- marcinzm 6y ago
  The vast vast majority of people who leave SF or NYC move to either the suburbs or other (cheaper) cities. Neither option is rural by any stretch of the imagination. Humans are social animals and most enjoy spending time with other humans that share interests with them which is much easier in urban environments.
  - ceilingcorner 6y ago
    This is not true and the preference for urban environments is a modern phenomenon. The Romans for example thought cities were disastrous and that any self-respecting citizen would live in a suburban or rural area. I see no reason why remote work and self-driving cars can’t chip into the urbanization trend.

enkid 6y ago

Some people like living in nature. With utilities already built out or alternatives like solar power for electricity and starlink for internet, people could untether themselves from urban areas all together.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

frabbit 6y ago

Dark skies, peace, quiet. All these make me enjoy being away from conurbations. I especially dislike the lack of darkness in winter.

anewaccount2021 6y ago

A future rural home will have off-grid power (solar + power wall), off-grid internet (starlink) and off-grid water is already solved. Why again do I need to be packed and stacked? And why do we keep talking about urban life as aspirational? Many of those currently leaving SF and NYC are wealthy enough to move on a whim. These aren't flights of desperation. Why are wealthy people leaving?

jacobolus 6y ago
> Many of those currently leaving SF and NYC are wealthy enough ... Why are wealthy people leaving? Maybe you have noticed a worldwide event this past year that temporarily impedes many of the activities people moved to SF and NYC to enjoy? But anecdotally, most of the people I know who have left SF in the past several years were not especially wealthy (by SF standards at least) and have growing children. (This is a biased selection, since I spent lots of time at the playground.) The reasons for leaving included: rent-controlled apartment felt too small but moving to a market-rate bigger apartment was unaffordable; child care was too expensive compared to free help someplace else from grandparents / extended family; parents wanted their children to experience a suburban childhood similar to their own; parents didn't want to send their children to schools alongside poor children, but couldn't afford or didn't want to pay for private school, so preferred to move to a less economically diverse school district; parent's temporary city job finished, and the newly found job happened to be somewhere else. The wealthier families I know have been less likely to move, since they either have a big enough home or can afford to move to one; can afford to pay for nannies etc., or can afford to have one parent stay home; can afford private school if they want; have more permanent jobs or an easier time finding a new job in the same area; ...
- anewaccount2021 6y ago
  So you follow your initial argument that the exodus is covid-driven with a list of reasons not related to covid at all. So, we agree? People who are moving are those who can afford to. And if you knew how SF schools worked, you wouldn't have written your last sentence. You leave SF schools to escape diversity - its a lottery system.
  - jacobolus 6y ago
    The people I know who have left specifically due to Covid are young professionals, either single or childless couples. Yes, they could easily afford to move. > You leave SF schools to escape diversity That is exactly what I said. This gets euphemistically phrased as "The test scores are too low. I don't want my kid at a failing school."
marcinzm 6y ago
The vast vast majority of people who leave SF or NYC move to either the suburbs or other (cheaper) cities. Neither option is rural by any stretch of the imagination. Humans are social animals and most enjoy spending time with other humans that share interests with them which is much easier in urban environments.
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  This is not true and the preference for urban environments is a modern phenomenon. The Romans for example thought cities were disastrous and that any self-respecting citizen would live in a suburban or rural area. I see no reason why remote work and self-driving cars can’t chip into the urbanization trend.