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I went to an american school that had its own strict requirements regarding hair. male students were required to keep their hair cut short enough so it would no

I went to an american school that had its own strict requirements regarding hair. male students were required to keep their hair cut short enough so it would not touch their collar and to be clean shaven. repeat offenders would get a (sloppy) haircut from the dean or be required to shave on the spot, respectively. I don't find the hair color requirement to be any more unreasonable, though perhaps it has a racial subtext?

Meerax 6y ago
Or even genetic subtext perhaps?
vmilner 6y ago
Requiring naturally blonde people to dye their hair black seems significantly more unreasonable to me.
- mjw1007 6y ago
  The parallel to requiring naturally bearded people to shave their facial hair off is very close. Both are potentially mildly damaging, and they take roughly similar amounts of time to reverse.
  - novok 6y ago
    Dying hair is a lot more work and chemicals than shaving, although you dont have to do it as frequently
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
fastball 6y ago
Requiring someone to use a potentially damaging product on themselves is different from requiring a certain hair cut. That being said, I find hair requirements distasteful as well.
- leetcrew 6y ago
  perhaps I'm just wrong, but I thought dyes were mostly safe and the bleaching step was the damaging part. in any case, this was more of a "people who live in glass houses" post than a defense of the rule. imo we have a lot of arbitrary appearance requirements for school children that do more to distract from learning than anything else. the school I went to justified their strict dress code by claiming it was all to prepare us for our professional lives. I have to chuckle at that one when I show up to the office with hair that goes down to my bellybutton, a beard, and a tshirt, still looking more "presentable" than many of my peers.
  - taylorfinley 6y ago
    Increased breast cancer risks have recently been reported: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/permanent-hair-dye-straighteners-may-increase-breast-cancer-risk https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/permanent-hair...
tartoran 6y ago
I grew up under communism in E Europe and we had a similar standard and enforced sort of violently and humiliatingly. I remember having longish hair when a primary teacher from an adjacent class stepped in, put her hand in my hair (hair wasn’t supposed to go over finger girth in length for boys) and while dragging it she loudly said: is this a boy? Let’s check his private parts cause he looks like a girl. All other kids were either stupefied or laughing. They did not check my private parts but it was humiliating enough to leave an emotional scar to remember. My teacher liked me and let me have longer hair but when it was growing too long she’d gently tell me she’ll have problems for me, so not everybody was mean. But the mean teachers were very empowered and acting on a whim whenever they felt like. Corporal punishment was also common, they would slap put palms with wooden rulers, pull out hair, etc. I wasn’t roudy and I can say I didn’t get a lot of it but still, if one had ADHD they’d be constantly punished. I wonder what came of those kids eventually
dehrmann 6y ago
My private Catholic high school had a policy that hair must be a natural hair color. Doesn't mean it can't be dyed, just can't be blue. I'm sure the Japanese policies have the same intent, they just weren't somewhere you'll see red, blond(e), brown, and black in a class of 100.
klyrs 6y ago
Several Sikhs went to my highschool, and men are forbidden from shaving or cutting their hair (kept in a turban, it was always above the collar). This wasn't a problem, as we were generally allowed to dress and style ourselves how we liked except for some rules around "decency" and "gang colors". But I've heard plenty of stories, even in the last few years, about Sikhs and black people getting punished for not adhering to various western norms
- dathinab 6y ago
  Aren't their anti discrimination laws which should prevent such very obvious discrimination against some cultures??
  - klyrs 6y ago
    In the US, such laws provide students recourse after they've been punished, thrown out of sporting events, etc. Schools and sports associations often update their policies after such events get broadly publicized. But no, the law doesn't prevent it altogether.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      Of course, literally speaking, the law doesn’t prevent any behavior, it simply deters it. I think the reason why we see these things still happen is because the laws are broad, continually improving, and education is administrated at a local level so you have different organizations rediscovering the same social issues over and over.
      - klyrs 6y ago
        It's not just preventing behavior -- there's a ton of places where there are still variously unconstitutional/illegal policies and laws. Unless schools, local lawmakers, etc. are proactive in bringing this up to date (like my high school) then the legal system demands its pound of flesh to show that harm was done to force a change to happen.
  - 6y ago
dathinab 6y ago
It has: a) a racial subtext, through maybe unintended b) damages your hair, potentially permanent c) tells you you are less good because you don't have natural black hair
- rowanG077 6y ago
  How does dyeing your hair damage it permanently? Doesn't seem possible to me since it just regrows.
  - filmgirlcw 6y ago
    Well, the structure of the follicle is altered. So if you want to truly remove all damage, you need to cut it all off and regrow it. That’s a lengthy process, particularly for women or men who prefer to wear their hair long. Moreover, there ARE things chemicals can do to your scalp that can prevent hair from growing or growing the same way. People who have chemotherapy and lose all their hair often find that their hair grows back differently (texture, elasticity) than it was before. Hair dye isn’t going to do that, but chemicals absolutely can alter your scalp and the follicle permanently.
    - rowanG077 6y ago
      I somehow doubt that over the counter hair dye can alter your scalp permanently like that. Do you have a source for that?
      - filmgirlcw 6y ago
        I explicitly said hair dye won’t do that, but that chemicals can impact your scalp permanently, i.e. chemotherapy or radiation. Acne can impact your scalp permanently (scar tissue from acne can prevent new growth in those areas). Using too many extensions (particularly if sewn into the scalp) can damage your scalp permanently (again, scar tissue). Having said that, over the counter stuff absolutely affects the the health of your hair and dying too frequently, leaving dye on too long, using a poor quality of dye (of which over the counter almost always is), too much peroxide (which is often needed so the color can stick) can absolutely damage the hair on your head permanently (until that hair is cut off and regrows). The only way to truly recover from the damage due to hair dye is to cut it all off and regrow, which for people with long hair, can take a tremendous amount of time.
grogenaut 6y ago
My school had these requirements. Vice principal carried around disposable razors and made you dry shave. It was a (catholic) religious school so there were religious exemptions but they also talked with the parents a ton so no one could pull that.
newacct583 6y ago
Exactly. Every culture has conformity standards, they just differ in the details. The reasoning largely reduces to "kids who stand out are 'distractions' and need to conform". It's not any different from rules in US schools about bare shoulders, pants vs. skirts (and length of skirt), buttons on shirts, etc...

Meerax 6y ago

Or even genetic subtext perhaps?

vmilner 6y ago

Requiring naturally blonde people to dye their hair black seems significantly more unreasonable to me.

mjw1007 6y ago
The parallel to requiring naturally bearded people to shave their facial hair off is very close. Both are potentially mildly damaging, and they take roughly similar amounts of time to reverse.
- novok 6y ago
  Dying hair is a lot more work and chemicals than shaving, although you dont have to do it as frequently
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

fastball 6y ago

Requiring someone to use a potentially damaging product on themselves is different from requiring a certain hair cut. That being said, I find hair requirements distasteful as well.

leetcrew 6y ago
perhaps I'm just wrong, but I thought dyes were mostly safe and the bleaching step was the damaging part. in any case, this was more of a "people who live in glass houses" post than a defense of the rule. imo we have a lot of arbitrary appearance requirements for school children that do more to distract from learning than anything else. the school I went to justified their strict dress code by claiming it was all to prepare us for our professional lives. I have to chuckle at that one when I show up to the office with hair that goes down to my bellybutton, a beard, and a tshirt, still looking more "presentable" than many of my peers.
- taylorfinley 6y ago
  Increased breast cancer risks have recently been reported: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/permanent-hair-dye-straighteners-may-increase-breast-cancer-risk https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/permanent-hair...

tartoran 6y ago

I grew up under communism in E Europe and we had a similar standard and enforced sort of violently and humiliatingly. I remember having longish hair when a primary teacher from an adjacent class stepped in, put her hand in my hair (hair wasn’t supposed to go over finger girth in length for boys) and while dragging it she loudly said: is this a boy? Let’s check his private parts cause he looks like a girl. All other kids were either stupefied or laughing. They did not check my private parts but it was humiliating enough to leave an emotional scar to remember. My teacher liked me and let me have longer hair but when it was growing too long she’d gently tell me she’ll have problems for me, so not everybody was mean. But the mean teachers were very empowered and acting on a whim whenever they felt like. Corporal punishment was also common, they would slap put palms with wooden rulers, pull out hair, etc. I wasn’t roudy and I can say I didn’t get a lot of it but still, if one had ADHD they’d be constantly punished. I wonder what came of those kids eventually

dehrmann 6y ago

My private Catholic high school had a policy that hair must be a natural hair color. Doesn't mean it can't be dyed, just can't be blue. I'm sure the Japanese policies have the same intent, they just weren't somewhere you'll see red, blond(e), brown, and black in a class of 100.

klyrs 6y ago

Several Sikhs went to my highschool, and men are forbidden from shaving or cutting their hair (kept in a turban, it was always above the collar). This wasn't a problem, as we were generally allowed to dress and style ourselves how we liked except for some rules around "decency" and "gang colors". But I've heard plenty of stories, even in the last few years, about Sikhs and black people getting punished for not adhering to various western norms

dathinab 6y ago
Aren't their anti discrimination laws which should prevent such very obvious discrimination against some cultures??
- klyrs 6y ago
  In the US, such laws provide students recourse after they've been punished, thrown out of sporting events, etc. Schools and sports associations often update their policies after such events get broadly publicized. But no, the law doesn't prevent it altogether.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Of course, literally speaking, the law doesn’t prevent any behavior, it simply deters it. I think the reason why we see these things still happen is because the laws are broad, continually improving, and education is administrated at a local level so you have different organizations rediscovering the same social issues over and over.
    - klyrs 6y ago
      It's not just preventing behavior -- there's a ton of places where there are still variously unconstitutional/illegal policies and laws. Unless schools, local lawmakers, etc. are proactive in bringing this up to date (like my high school) then the legal system demands its pound of flesh to show that harm was done to force a change to happen.
- 6y ago

dathinab 6y ago

It has: a) a racial subtext, through maybe unintended b) damages your hair, potentially permanent c) tells you you are less good because you don't have natural black hair

rowanG077 6y ago
How does dyeing your hair damage it permanently? Doesn't seem possible to me since it just regrows.
- filmgirlcw 6y ago
  Well, the structure of the follicle is altered. So if you want to truly remove all damage, you need to cut it all off and regrow it. That’s a lengthy process, particularly for women or men who prefer to wear their hair long. Moreover, there ARE things chemicals can do to your scalp that can prevent hair from growing or growing the same way. People who have chemotherapy and lose all their hair often find that their hair grows back differently (texture, elasticity) than it was before. Hair dye isn’t going to do that, but chemicals absolutely can alter your scalp and the follicle permanently.
  - rowanG077 6y ago
    I somehow doubt that over the counter hair dye can alter your scalp permanently like that. Do you have a source for that?
    - filmgirlcw 6y ago
      I explicitly said hair dye won’t do that, but that chemicals can impact your scalp permanently, i.e. chemotherapy or radiation. Acne can impact your scalp permanently (scar tissue from acne can prevent new growth in those areas). Using too many extensions (particularly if sewn into the scalp) can damage your scalp permanently (again, scar tissue). Having said that, over the counter stuff absolutely affects the the health of your hair and dying too frequently, leaving dye on too long, using a poor quality of dye (of which over the counter almost always is), too much peroxide (which is often needed so the color can stick) can absolutely damage the hair on your head permanently (until that hair is cut off and regrows). The only way to truly recover from the damage due to hair dye is to cut it all off and regrow, which for people with long hair, can take a tremendous amount of time.

grogenaut 6y ago

My school had these requirements. Vice principal carried around disposable razors and made you dry shave. It was a (catholic) religious school so there were religious exemptions but they also talked with the parents a ton so no one could pull that.

newacct583 6y ago

Exactly. Every culture has conformity standards, they just differ in the details. The reasoning largely reduces to "kids who stand out are 'distractions' and need to conform". It's not any different from rules in US schools about bare shoulders, pants vs. skirts (and length of skirt), buttons on shirts, etc...