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I know that but take a moment to read OP’s finer use of the language and use of more precise language. Every single word is perfectly precise, right down to the

by hluska 6y ago

I know that but take a moment to read OP’s finer use of the language and use of more precise language. Every single word is perfectly precise, right down to the tone. That was a pointlessly gendered comment and has no place in our industry. You can keep defending it but I’m not going to stop calling it out. Have a nice Sunday!

Blikkentrekker 6y ago
Is that so? I find I used various open phrases such as “Python developers” without going into the exact semantics of which ones, as I'm sure many objected to it, or “serious enterprises” without naming them, an incomplete list of programming languages, and so forth. It was certainly an informal statement I made, not a formal specification. There was nothing gendered about that statement, and most do not seem to have interpreted it as such, nor was it so intended by me.
- hluska 6y ago
  You don’t have to get defensive just be aware. The times have changed, the world is different and our default language absolutely has to adapt. Language adapts or does. That’s how English got here. You can adapt too - it’s not as hard as you’re making it out to be. Heck, if you spent an eighth of the time thinking about inclusivity as you do about individual words, I wouldn’t have had to say this. However, again, I’m glad I said something and regardless of what you claim, I’m not going to stop calling these kinds of grammatical monstrosities out. Language is important. Full stop.
tsimionescu 6y ago
My point is that, on an international site where English is only used as a means of communication, you should generally be more sensitive to cultural differences in the use of a language such as English. It is often used as a common common language between people who don't speak English natively, and so idioms and nuances from their own languages seep into this common English. The finer points about the semantics of a word such as 'man'/'men' and when it can be taken to refer to people unambiguously vs when it may accidentally imply you are talking about adult males are likely to be lost on a non-native speaker, especially if they come from a culture/language where this distinction and its implications are not subjects of general interest. Even if they are well-versed in the use of English in general. So it's better to follow HN guidelines and assume the best intentions where meaning is unclear, instead of calling people out on their use of English. Now, if you know for a fact that the GP is a native English speaker, and especially if you know that they are American, then what I'm saying is not very relevant.
- hluska 6y ago
  I get your point completely and I’m glad you shared it. When I was in University, I worked with ESL (English as a second language) students and they were always really happy to hear about idiomatic quirks like that. I should rethink how I approach this online. I don’t want to be patronizing because lots of non-native speakers have better written English than I do, but I’ll think about it and find a new line.

by hluska 6y ago

Blikkentrekker 6y ago

Is that so? I find I used various open phrases such as “Python developers” without going into the exact semantics of which ones, as I'm sure many objected to it, or “serious enterprises” without naming them, an incomplete list of programming languages, and so forth. It was certainly an informal statement I made, not a formal specification. There was nothing gendered about that statement, and most do not seem to have interpreted it as such, nor was it so intended by me.

hluska 6y ago
You don’t have to get defensive just be aware. The times have changed, the world is different and our default language absolutely has to adapt. Language adapts or does. That’s how English got here. You can adapt too - it’s not as hard as you’re making it out to be. Heck, if you spent an eighth of the time thinking about inclusivity as you do about individual words, I wouldn’t have had to say this. However, again, I’m glad I said something and regardless of what you claim, I’m not going to stop calling these kinds of grammatical monstrosities out. Language is important. Full stop.

tsimionescu 6y ago

My point is that, on an international site where English is only used as a means of communication, you should generally be more sensitive to cultural differences in the use of a language such as English. It is often used as a common common language between people who don't speak English natively, and so idioms and nuances from their own languages seep into this common English. The finer points about the semantics of a word such as 'man'/'men' and when it can be taken to refer to people unambiguously vs when it may accidentally imply you are talking about adult males are likely to be lost on a non-native speaker, especially if they come from a culture/language where this distinction and its implications are not subjects of general interest. Even if they are well-versed in the use of English in general. So it's better to follow HN guidelines and assume the best intentions where meaning is unclear, instead of calling people out on their use of English. Now, if you know for a fact that the GP is a native English speaker, and especially if you know that they are American, then what I'm saying is not very relevant.

hluska 6y ago
I get your point completely and I’m glad you shared it. When I was in University, I worked with ESL (English as a second language) students and they were always really happy to hear about idiomatic quirks like that. I should rethink how I approach this online. I don’t want to be patronizing because lots of non-native speakers have better written English than I do, but I’ll think about it and find a new line.