2 ms·

While you may be accurate, the cultural values transmitted are often not only at odds with scripture, but just repulsive in general. Homophobia, racism, intoler

by greedo 6y ago

While you may be accurate, the cultural values transmitted are often not only at odds with scripture, but just repulsive in general. Homophobia, racism, intolerance, misogyny and hypocrisy are just some of the "values" I've personally witnessed in both Episcopalian and Lutheran settings over 5 decades. While many tout the Judeo-Christian foundations of the US, most of that is just a thin veneer. Kind of like the Horatio Alger myth that you can simply pull yourself up by your bootstraps if you really really just try hard enough.

rayiner 6y ago
Racism has no basis in scripture. Scripture definitely teaches a traditional view of marriage and gender roles. You might consider that “repulsive” but I think there’s a lot of room for debate on that. Less than half of Americans believe that “changing gender roles have made it easier for women to live more satisfying lives.” https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/10/18/wide-partisan-gaps-in-u-s-over-how-far-the-country-has-come-on-gender-equality https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/10/18/wide-partisan-gap.... That includes less than 60% of Democrats. Scripture also teaches the centrality of procreation to marriage and society. I happen to agree with the Obergefell approach, which relied on relatively recent research (based on the 2010 census) showing the astounding number of same-sex couples raising children together. I think it’s no surprise that views on same-sex relationships have shifted quickly as people came to understand that it’s compatible with traditional understandings of marriage’s societal function. (That research, by the way, was not available 5 decades ago. The scientific research on homosexuality being an immutable characteristic really got going in the 1990s, and became widely acknowledge among the public only around 2010.) I will point out that the western world is almost entirely dependent on immigrants from societies that have traditional religious views on these issues for their population stability. Western social liberalism has many positive attributes, but it hasn’t proven to be self-perpetuating. Maybe it’s adherents should be a little circumspect before calling other attitudes “repulsive.”
- greedo 6y ago
  I didn't say that there was a scriptural basis for racism: "the cultural values transmitted are often not only at odds with scripture, but just repulsive in general." >Maybe it’s adherents should be a little circumspect before calling other attitudes “repulsive.” Which of the values I criticized as repulsive do you think I should be more circumspect about? Racism? Homophobia? Misogyny? >I will point out that the western world is almost entirely dependent on immigrants from societies that have traditional religious views on these issues for their population stability. Western social liberalism has many positive attributes, but it hasn’t proven to be self-perpetuating. I think the Western world will do just fine without embracing the repulsive values I've listed.

by greedo 6y ago

rayiner 6y ago

Racism has no basis in scripture. Scripture definitely teaches a traditional view of marriage and gender roles. You might consider that “repulsive” but I think there’s a lot of room for debate on that. Less than half of Americans believe that “changing gender roles have made it easier for women to live more satisfying lives.” https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/10/18/wide-partisan-gaps-in-u-s-over-how-far-the-country-has-come-on-gender-equality https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/10/18/wide-partisan-gap.... That includes less than 60% of Democrats. Scripture also teaches the centrality of procreation to marriage and society. I happen to agree with the Obergefell approach, which relied on relatively recent research (based on the 2010 census) showing the astounding number of same-sex couples raising children together. I think it’s no surprise that views on same-sex relationships have shifted quickly as people came to understand that it’s compatible with traditional understandings of marriage’s societal function. (That research, by the way, was not available 5 decades ago. The scientific research on homosexuality being an immutable characteristic really got going in the 1990s, and became widely acknowledge among the public only around 2010.) I will point out that the western world is almost entirely dependent on immigrants from societies that have traditional religious views on these issues for their population stability. Western social liberalism has many positive attributes, but it hasn’t proven to be self-perpetuating. Maybe it’s adherents should be a little circumspect before calling other attitudes “repulsive.”

greedo 6y ago
I didn't say that there was a scriptural basis for racism: "the cultural values transmitted are often not only at odds with scripture, but just repulsive in general." >Maybe it’s adherents should be a little circumspect before calling other attitudes “repulsive.” Which of the values I criticized as repulsive do you think I should be more circumspect about? Racism? Homophobia? Misogyny? >I will point out that the western world is almost entirely dependent on immigrants from societies that have traditional religious views on these issues for their population stability. Western social liberalism has many positive attributes, but it hasn’t proven to be self-perpetuating. I think the Western world will do just fine without embracing the repulsive values I've listed.