4 ms·

Your examples are two islands and a peninsula that might as well be an island... I can't help but notice that pattern, and wonder if it might have something to

Your examples are two islands and a peninsula that might as well be an island... I can't help but notice that pattern, and wonder if it might have something to do with their success.

acdha 6y ago
You left out the massive travel connections to China and putting experts in charge of the response. The United States wasn’t deluged with spread from Mexico and Canada, and there is no reason why we couldn’t have used the same airport quarantine system they used, public mask requirements, and paying inherently unsafe businesses like indoor dining to close until spread was under control. The difference is that our response was dictated by political calls made by people who famously dislike expertise whereas the countries I mentioned followed scientific principles. The earlier SARS outbreak helped but the US CDC was hardly unaware of that - this is almost exactly a practice scenario they used years before in the Obama-era playbook the Trump administration ignored. The 2019 HHS exercise had travelers to China bringing back a novel influenza variant but otherwise was very similar: no antiviral drugs or vaccine, depleted PPE stockpiles, local governments refusing to close schools and restaurants, etc.
- JPKab 6y ago
  Your political bias is obvious and evident. Why don't you compare the US to countries that aren't island nations or quasi-island nations, like the EU? Do you think the EU doesn't believe in science? You also ignore the fact that the majority of public health governance in the US, by a wide margin, is at state and local level. I voted for Obama, twice. I volunteered for his campaign. And I don't think his administration handled the Swine Flu well at all. I had a toddler at the time with asthma, who was in a category of vulnerable people. Folks like you didn't care about Swine Flu, but for those of us who did, it was unpleasant. I rode a subway to work daily at the time, and it was widespread and completely uncontained. I'm not a partisan. I don't think the Trump administration handled the virus well at all. I also don't think the Obama administration would have handled it well. Better? Likely. But they wouldn't have done a good job. If you think the US government does a good job at anything other than warfare, you haven't worked with the US government on much. Your comparisons of the US vs. island nations (SK is not able to be accessed from the north, as you damned well know) with fractions of the population of the US is ridiculous, and betrays a partisan bias that believes that the Federal government in the US is supremely capable, as long as my preferred candidate runs it. Obama, who again, I voted for and campaigned for, couldn't handle launching a website for his flagship legislation. Because the US Federal Government is broken and can't execute on shit. And because of partisans, who truly believe the government magically becomes competent when the leader changes, it won't get fixed. Never mind that over 90% of the personnel of any agency remain no matter who is president. No, this time, they'll get the (funding|scientific backing|whatever) they didn't get from the previous person in the other party. What a load of tripe.
  - acdha 6y ago
    > Why don't you compare the US to countries that aren't island nations or quasi-island nations, like the EU? How is the EU a quasi-island nation in a way that the US doesn’t also qualify as? I selected those countries because they’re democracies who learned from the original SARS and immediately deployed strong measures to prevent economic damage. We failed to contain spread and are paying the economic price now for that earlier politicization because we have so much community spread that control is much harder now than it would have been. You should be directing your anger at the people who refused to take basic safety precautions or operate their businesses safely and ensured that we would have no option which isn’t expensive and painful.

Your examples are two islands and a peninsula that might as well be an island... I can't help but notice that pattern, and wonder if it might have something to do with their success.

acdha 6y ago

You left out the massive travel connections to China and putting experts in charge of the response. The United States wasn’t deluged with spread from Mexico and Canada, and there is no reason why we couldn’t have used the same airport quarantine system they used, public mask requirements, and paying inherently unsafe businesses like indoor dining to close until spread was under control. The difference is that our response was dictated by political calls made by people who famously dislike expertise whereas the countries I mentioned followed scientific principles. The earlier SARS outbreak helped but the US CDC was hardly unaware of that - this is almost exactly a practice scenario they used years before in the Obama-era playbook the Trump administration ignored. The 2019 HHS exercise had travelers to China bringing back a novel influenza variant but otherwise was very similar: no antiviral drugs or vaccine, depleted PPE stockpiles, local governments refusing to close schools and restaurants, etc.

JPKab 6y ago
Your political bias is obvious and evident. Why don't you compare the US to countries that aren't island nations or quasi-island nations, like the EU? Do you think the EU doesn't believe in science? You also ignore the fact that the majority of public health governance in the US, by a wide margin, is at state and local level. I voted for Obama, twice. I volunteered for his campaign. And I don't think his administration handled the Swine Flu well at all. I had a toddler at the time with asthma, who was in a category of vulnerable people. Folks like you didn't care about Swine Flu, but for those of us who did, it was unpleasant. I rode a subway to work daily at the time, and it was widespread and completely uncontained. I'm not a partisan. I don't think the Trump administration handled the virus well at all. I also don't think the Obama administration would have handled it well. Better? Likely. But they wouldn't have done a good job. If you think the US government does a good job at anything other than warfare, you haven't worked with the US government on much. Your comparisons of the US vs. island nations (SK is not able to be accessed from the north, as you damned well know) with fractions of the population of the US is ridiculous, and betrays a partisan bias that believes that the Federal government in the US is supremely capable, as long as my preferred candidate runs it. Obama, who again, I voted for and campaigned for, couldn't handle launching a website for his flagship legislation. Because the US Federal Government is broken and can't execute on shit. And because of partisans, who truly believe the government magically becomes competent when the leader changes, it won't get fixed. Never mind that over 90% of the personnel of any agency remain no matter who is president. No, this time, they'll get the (funding|scientific backing|whatever) they didn't get from the previous person in the other party. What a load of tripe.
- acdha 6y ago
  > Why don't you compare the US to countries that aren't island nations or quasi-island nations, like the EU? How is the EU a quasi-island nation in a way that the US doesn’t also qualify as? I selected those countries because they’re democracies who learned from the original SARS and immediately deployed strong measures to prevent economic damage. We failed to contain spread and are paying the economic price now for that earlier politicization because we have so much community spread that control is much harder now than it would have been. You should be directing your anger at the people who refused to take basic safety precautions or operate their businesses safely and ensured that we would have no option which isn’t expensive and painful.