6 ms·

Godiva tried to expand too fast in my view and the quality of the chocolate is mediocre (compared to other Belgian chocolate) and priced too high. Starbucks ma

by jarym 6y ago

Godiva tried to expand too fast in my view and the quality of the chocolate is mediocre (compared to other Belgian chocolate) and priced too high. Starbucks made a similar mistake around the 2007 financial crash but seem to have recovered so it’s not a total dead end for Godiva yet...

luxurytent 6y ago
For reference, Starbucks is closing 300 stores in Canada https://www.cbc.ca/news/starbucks-closures-1.5871231 https://www.cbc.ca/news/starbucks-closures-1.5871231
- ghaff 6y ago
  There's a Starbucks near a dead-ish mall near me. Whenever I drive by there is a line of about 20 cars whose drivers apparently need their fix. I do not understand.
  - paulryanrogers 6y ago
    Habits, brands as personal identity, social signaling are all powerful
jankeymeulen 6y ago
Godiva hadn't been belgian for over a decade. For something I - as a belgian - would consider and is available worldwide, I'd go with Neuhaus.
- m00dy 6y ago
  It is now Turkish, right ?
- jarym 6y ago
  Yes I prefer both Neuhaus and Leonidas to Godiva.
lotsofpulp 6y ago
> Godiva tried to expand too fast in my view and the quality of the chocolate is mediocre (compared to other Belgian chocolate) and priced too high. I’ve seen it play out so many times, I assume it’s a conscious strategy choice. Build up brand value, and then exchange it for cash by cutting costs while still selling under previous reputation.
JoeAltmaier 6y ago
Or, better chocolates have eclipsed Godiva? There's a considerable boutique chocolate industry, and our expertise in what constitutes quality chocolate has moved.
gverrilla 6y ago
For coffee you add value by having street venues because coffee takes preparation and serving. Chocolate can be found ready to consume in a variety of different venues including markets. Never been to a godiva store but maybe it was bad strategy from the start. For what I know about Starbucks, the expansion was fast in order to hit small local cafes hard and take them off the business.
acdha 6y ago
Exactly right: the pandemic forced the issue but the real problem was taking on expensive locations to sell not much better than Hershey-grade chocolate at premium prices. That was just waiting for the next stress event to hit problems, whatever that would have been.
- JPKab 6y ago
  The governmental response to the pandemic forced the issue. The virus didn’t magically halt economic activity. Governments did, and we need to keep that in mind, because depending on the state, the government response was often far too harsh and not backed by science. Outdoor dining being shut down in California likely caused the spike they are seeing now, by driving people to socializing indoors in private locations. Saying businesses closed due to pandemic gives the government a pass they don’t deserve. Too often, they could have chosen to require businesses to implement rules and procedures, but instead decided it was easier to just shut them all down. In the recent court decision that overturned LA County outdoor dining ban, it was discovered that the indoor dining ban was implemented because 10 percent of restaurants weren’t following distancing rules. So they shut them all down as a response. In the same case, it was also discovered that LA County had no scientific evidence of any form to shutdown outdoor dining. Every study they cited was indoor transmission. When the court sided against the county, Gavin Newsom immediately responded by making the outdoor dining ban a state rule, forcing the litigants to challenge the law in state court, still with no science backing him. A lot of economic damage could have been avoided if governments in the US weren’t filled with quantitatively illiterate do-gooders who say “follow the science” but aren’t capable of understanding it. The age stratification of risk from COVID-19 was essentially absent from public health discussion because of this.
  - acdha 6y ago
    > The virus didn’t magically halt economic activity This is the opposite of true. Most businesses cannot survive on half of their normal traffic and when it became known that it wasn’t safe to linger indoors many people voluntarily restricted their activities to essentials. Groceries count, mall chocolates do not. The right-wing counter factual you’re spreading is an attempt to distract from the damage caused by certain bad calls made early on to prevent the normal public health response for political reasons. Consider how massive the government response was in Taiwan, South Korea, Australia, etc. - and how that has supported a more normal economy along with saving many thousands of lives.

by jarym 6y ago

luxurytent 6y ago

For reference, Starbucks is closing 300 stores in Canada https://www.cbc.ca/news/starbucks-closures-1.5871231 https://www.cbc.ca/news/starbucks-closures-1.5871231

ghaff 6y ago
There's a Starbucks near a dead-ish mall near me. Whenever I drive by there is a line of about 20 cars whose drivers apparently need their fix. I do not understand.
- paulryanrogers 6y ago
  Habits, brands as personal identity, social signaling are all powerful

jankeymeulen 6y ago

Godiva hadn't been belgian for over a decade. For something I - as a belgian - would consider and is available worldwide, I'd go with Neuhaus.

m00dy 6y ago
It is now Turkish, right ?
jarym 6y ago
Yes I prefer both Neuhaus and Leonidas to Godiva.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

> Godiva tried to expand too fast in my view and the quality of the chocolate is mediocre (compared to other Belgian chocolate) and priced too high. I’ve seen it play out so many times, I assume it’s a conscious strategy choice. Build up brand value, and then exchange it for cash by cutting costs while still selling under previous reputation.

JoeAltmaier 6y ago

Or, better chocolates have eclipsed Godiva? There's a considerable boutique chocolate industry, and our expertise in what constitutes quality chocolate has moved.

gverrilla 6y ago

For coffee you add value by having street venues because coffee takes preparation and serving. Chocolate can be found ready to consume in a variety of different venues including markets. Never been to a godiva store but maybe it was bad strategy from the start. For what I know about Starbucks, the expansion was fast in order to hit small local cafes hard and take them off the business.

acdha 6y ago

Exactly right: the pandemic forced the issue but the real problem was taking on expensive locations to sell not much better than Hershey-grade chocolate at premium prices. That was just waiting for the next stress event to hit problems, whatever that would have been.

JPKab 6y ago
The governmental response to the pandemic forced the issue. The virus didn’t magically halt economic activity. Governments did, and we need to keep that in mind, because depending on the state, the government response was often far too harsh and not backed by science. Outdoor dining being shut down in California likely caused the spike they are seeing now, by driving people to socializing indoors in private locations. Saying businesses closed due to pandemic gives the government a pass they don’t deserve. Too often, they could have chosen to require businesses to implement rules and procedures, but instead decided it was easier to just shut them all down. In the recent court decision that overturned LA County outdoor dining ban, it was discovered that the indoor dining ban was implemented because 10 percent of restaurants weren’t following distancing rules. So they shut them all down as a response. In the same case, it was also discovered that LA County had no scientific evidence of any form to shutdown outdoor dining. Every study they cited was indoor transmission. When the court sided against the county, Gavin Newsom immediately responded by making the outdoor dining ban a state rule, forcing the litigants to challenge the law in state court, still with no science backing him. A lot of economic damage could have been avoided if governments in the US weren’t filled with quantitatively illiterate do-gooders who say “follow the science” but aren’t capable of understanding it. The age stratification of risk from COVID-19 was essentially absent from public health discussion because of this.
- acdha 6y ago
  > The virus didn’t magically halt economic activity This is the opposite of true. Most businesses cannot survive on half of their normal traffic and when it became known that it wasn’t safe to linger indoors many people voluntarily restricted their activities to essentials. Groceries count, mall chocolates do not. The right-wing counter factual you’re spreading is an attempt to distract from the damage caused by certain bad calls made early on to prevent the normal public health response for political reasons. Consider how massive the government response was in Taiwan, South Korea, Australia, etc. - and how that has supported a more normal economy along with saving many thousands of lives.