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> I don't think that everyone that is entirely opposed to government-based solutions to the problem (or even entirely opposed to the concept of a government or

by notloggedin2021 6y ago

> I don't think that everyone that is entirely opposed to government-based solutions to the problem (or even entirely opposed to the concept of a government or a state in general) is a "hardline extremist". It sort of does though... for the purpose of this discussion the spectrum runs from: all-government-regulated to all-individually-accomplished. So basically falling into either extreme of the spectrum (which by definition declines any other mid-point solution) is exactly the definition of “hardline extremist”. Arguing otherwise seems to me more like you haven’t made your peace with it. ...in my personal opinion such views still have a very valid role to play in the discussion, but any successful solution will lie somewhere in the middle.

sneak 6y ago
> for the purpose of this discussion the spectrum runs from: all-government-regulated to all-individually-accomplished. I've spotted the issue. This is a false dichotomy. The government is just an abstraction over a group, like any other; literally nobody who is suggesting that government-based solutions aren't good are advocating for individual accomplishment outside of groups. The government has no hands and no brain; all actions undertaken under color of the state are carried out by "individual" humans. Nobody's saying that coordination amongst people in large groups isn't required. If there is a 'spectrum', it's "individuals" vs "groups", or it's "compulsory groups, on threat of violence" (the state) vs "voluntary association" (how almost every other group in our society works - and 100% of the effective ones). You can't meaningfully threaten world-class, creative, hardworking people into being maximally efficient and effective. You need a carrot, not a stick, and the only solutions the state provides are based on their ability to print cash (already not a problem if you're effective and productive), or a stick.

sneak 6y ago

> for the purpose of this discussion the spectrum runs from: all-government-regulated to all-individually-accomplished. I've spotted the issue. This is a false dichotomy. The government is just an abstraction over a group, like any other; literally nobody who is suggesting that government-based solutions aren't good are advocating for individual accomplishment outside of groups. The government has no hands and no brain; all actions undertaken under color of the state are carried out by "individual" humans. Nobody's saying that coordination amongst people in large groups isn't required. If there is a 'spectrum', it's "individuals" vs "groups", or it's "compulsory groups, on threat of violence" (the state) vs "voluntary association" (how almost every other group in our society works - and 100% of the effective ones). You can't meaningfully threaten world-class, creative, hardworking people into being maximally efficient and effective. You need a carrot, not a stick, and the only solutions the state provides are based on their ability to print cash (already not a problem if you're effective and productive), or a stick.