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Why has it become shameful to simply say indulging yourself with calories is a personal choice that has consequences? It boggles my mind we need “science” to t

Why has it become shameful to simply say indulging yourself with calories is a personal choice that has consequences? It boggles my mind we need “science” to tell us this stuff that is frankly just common sense that has been beaten down by pop culture.

d0mine 6y ago
Obesity is much more complex than your comment implies. It is completely unsurprising that there are people who think like you.
fxtentacle 6y ago
It has also become shameful to honestly tell people that they failed at a task. Instead, you praise them for trying... We're treating adults more and more like kids.
- AlecSchueler 6y ago
  If you call them a failure they internalise their failure as a feature of their character. If you praise them they will be more likely to engage in improving their performance. Why is being harsh seen as being more adult? It's just harmful and creates many social barriers and ill will.
  - sojournerc 6y ago
    You can lose a game and not be a "loser". You can fail and not be a failure. We used to teach that, not tell everyone they did good for participating Somehow we've lost the distinction between the outcome and the person.
    - LeoNatan25 6y ago
      Everyone today ties their persona and personal identity around what they do, what they purchase and what their opinion is. In some developer circles, merely opening an issue or criticizing a feature is now considered rude, because someone worked on it very hard and they might get offended at pointing the bug or lacking design. This problem is getting more and more widespread. Some people see disagreeing with any of their mundane opinions as assault on their character. With the advent of social media, blocking people for having different opinions, institutionalizing “safe” “spaces” in academia, so that freedom from “offense” or “insult” is seen as more virtuous than having freedom of opinions and ideas, it’s no surprising that people expect to be awarded for merely participating, or they fall in existential depressions.
    - fxtentacle 6y ago
      Fully agree. If I tell someone that they failed a test, they can either bounce back and work on their skills to pass the re-test, or they can internalize it and stop trying. In my opinion, the 2nd choice is a very common mental disease, in the sense that I see no benefits but lots of drawbacks from generalizing a failure in one part of your life into a character attribute. So most likely, such a trait would have been evolutionary selected against. In short, people who internalize failure are evolutionary less fit.
      - pringleson 6y ago
        Yikes, how does a discussion about the (vacuous, millenia-old) notion of "all the youg'uns have no grit/resiliency/whatever, that's the problem nowadays!" turn into a self-congratulatory pop-evo-psych / Social Darwinist diatribe?
AlecSchueler 6y ago
Because we understand that obesity is highly linked to traumatic experience and that the over eating tends to be the result of compulsive escapism rather than a conscious choice to indulge. Can highly recommend the book The Body Keeps The Score for further reading.
- throwitaway1235 6y ago
  According to the most recent CDC data, 42% of Americans are classified as clinically obese. Are we to believe nearly half the country is suffering from severe psychological trauma? I blame the intersection of capitalism and food, the normalization and expansion of horrific fast food choices solely because it is profitable and advertising is cheap.
  - LeoNatan25 6y ago
    Don’t forget the sensationalist left that has proliferated the idea of “fat” “shaming”, where merely pointing out an unhealthy lifestyle is considered rude, insulting, shaming or elitist.
  - im3w1l 6y ago
    Mental health is down, and obesity is up. It doesn't follow that they are related, but it seems they could be.
  - inglor_cz 6y ago
    Yeah, this is a fishy correlation. While I believe that some people may soothe their bad feelings with food, we don't observe any sort of obesity epidemics in the cohorts of survivors of serious crises (Yugoslav civil wars etc.)
- Veen 6y ago
  It's also linked to enjoying fatty and sugary foods. I'm overweight, and it's not because of a traumatic experience. It's because I enjoy eating pizza and burgers, and I'm too lazy to shop for and cook healthy food.
brnt 6y ago
As a European, the (default) food options I see in the US make it very difficult to eat what I would call a healthy meal. You really have to make an extraordinary effort, which I don't experience back home and therefore I can't be surprised to see it translates in these obesity statistics. To place that all on personal agency seems not very productive to me, back home there are efforts made that make easy and default options meet a minimum level of healthiness. I don't see why Americans can't do the same, and why you would want to count on billions of individual choices if you can solve with a (health) program. This kind of thinking made us into programmers, right?
- eue6e6ey 6y ago
  I see variations of this idea a lot but I find it hard to agree with them. Right now (in California) I can buy a week's worth of low calorie healthy groceries (including a variety of leafy greens) from Walmart for around 30 bucks. I'm fancy so for me it's around 45 via instacart (sub+tip). That's not too bad for most Americans. Even if it is for some, rice, beans, and milk alongside a wide variety of filling vegetables can be bought for gallons/pounds on the dollar. The problem isn't access to healthy meal options, it's that most Americans with a choice would rather just eat food they enjoy more. Personally I never saw the issue since private healthcare means the added health burdens get priced in.
  - watwut 6y ago
    This assumes you cook own lunch and dinner. Before covid, I would had lunch next office just like everybody else. And how easy it is to find healthy balanced option there makes big difference. Plus, American version of everything contains more sugar - notably bread, sauces, cola, cereals, everything. Bread is the thing that makes massive difference. Aaaand milk is invariably low fat, which makes it less satiating. When I heart Americans talk about healthy food, they often end up citing food that can't work long term. Or that just seem designed to be tastles and punish you. You can't have the same beans your only protein source long term. Rice+beans easily amount to food that makes you both fat and hungry. Vegetables add vitamins and fibre, but absent some other fat and protein source you are bound to feel hungry.
jhayward 6y ago
Because your description of obesity has very little to do with what's actually happening. It's just more of the pernicious "sickness is due to evil, health is due to righteousness" nonsense that pervades certain demographics.
inglor_cz 6y ago
One of the factors in fattening of the UK and the USA is that many people forgot how to cook. The intergenerational transmission of this skill somehow diminished over the last decades. In contrast, in the poorest part of the world, pretty much everyone cooks at home, it would be unaffordable to live on processed foods only. But oh God, so many Westerners are absolutely clueless in the kitchen. I am not sure whether this is caused by not having enough time, by successful advertising from processed food producers or from a cultural stigma that cooking is somehow backward and a kind of self-oppression. But cooking is dying out, for the first time in human history.
- ketamine__ 6y ago
  It was the mission of the Hairy Bikers. They wanted people to start cooking at home again. All their recipes were high fat and high calorie. Eventually they did a weight loss show because they got so big. When my friends talk about "knowing how to cook" they are talking about making rich, luxurious foods with lots of butter, oil, eggs, and meat. It's probably worse than a hamburger from McDonald's.

d0mine 6y ago

Obesity is much more complex than your comment implies. It is completely unsurprising that there are people who think like you.

fxtentacle 6y ago

It has also become shameful to honestly tell people that they failed at a task. Instead, you praise them for trying... We're treating adults more and more like kids.

AlecSchueler 6y ago
If you call them a failure they internalise their failure as a feature of their character. If you praise them they will be more likely to engage in improving their performance. Why is being harsh seen as being more adult? It's just harmful and creates many social barriers and ill will.
- sojournerc 6y ago
  You can lose a game and not be a "loser". You can fail and not be a failure. We used to teach that, not tell everyone they did good for participating Somehow we've lost the distinction between the outcome and the person.
  - LeoNatan25 6y ago
    Everyone today ties their persona and personal identity around what they do, what they purchase and what their opinion is. In some developer circles, merely opening an issue or criticizing a feature is now considered rude, because someone worked on it very hard and they might get offended at pointing the bug or lacking design. This problem is getting more and more widespread. Some people see disagreeing with any of their mundane opinions as assault on their character. With the advent of social media, blocking people for having different opinions, institutionalizing “safe” “spaces” in academia, so that freedom from “offense” or “insult” is seen as more virtuous than having freedom of opinions and ideas, it’s no surprising that people expect to be awarded for merely participating, or they fall in existential depressions.
  - fxtentacle 6y ago
    Fully agree. If I tell someone that they failed a test, they can either bounce back and work on their skills to pass the re-test, or they can internalize it and stop trying. In my opinion, the 2nd choice is a very common mental disease, in the sense that I see no benefits but lots of drawbacks from generalizing a failure in one part of your life into a character attribute. So most likely, such a trait would have been evolutionary selected against. In short, people who internalize failure are evolutionary less fit.
    - pringleson 6y ago
      Yikes, how does a discussion about the (vacuous, millenia-old) notion of "all the youg'uns have no grit/resiliency/whatever, that's the problem nowadays!" turn into a self-congratulatory pop-evo-psych / Social Darwinist diatribe?

AlecSchueler 6y ago

Because we understand that obesity is highly linked to traumatic experience and that the over eating tends to be the result of compulsive escapism rather than a conscious choice to indulge. Can highly recommend the book The Body Keeps The Score for further reading.

throwitaway1235 6y ago
According to the most recent CDC data, 42% of Americans are classified as clinically obese. Are we to believe nearly half the country is suffering from severe psychological trauma? I blame the intersection of capitalism and food, the normalization and expansion of horrific fast food choices solely because it is profitable and advertising is cheap.
- LeoNatan25 6y ago
  Don’t forget the sensationalist left that has proliferated the idea of “fat” “shaming”, where merely pointing out an unhealthy lifestyle is considered rude, insulting, shaming or elitist.
- im3w1l 6y ago
  Mental health is down, and obesity is up. It doesn't follow that they are related, but it seems they could be.
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  Yeah, this is a fishy correlation. While I believe that some people may soothe their bad feelings with food, we don't observe any sort of obesity epidemics in the cohorts of survivors of serious crises (Yugoslav civil wars etc.)
Veen 6y ago
It's also linked to enjoying fatty and sugary foods. I'm overweight, and it's not because of a traumatic experience. It's because I enjoy eating pizza and burgers, and I'm too lazy to shop for and cook healthy food.

brnt 6y ago

As a European, the (default) food options I see in the US make it very difficult to eat what I would call a healthy meal. You really have to make an extraordinary effort, which I don't experience back home and therefore I can't be surprised to see it translates in these obesity statistics. To place that all on personal agency seems not very productive to me, back home there are efforts made that make easy and default options meet a minimum level of healthiness. I don't see why Americans can't do the same, and why you would want to count on billions of individual choices if you can solve with a (health) program. This kind of thinking made us into programmers, right?

eue6e6ey 6y ago
I see variations of this idea a lot but I find it hard to agree with them. Right now (in California) I can buy a week's worth of low calorie healthy groceries (including a variety of leafy greens) from Walmart for around 30 bucks. I'm fancy so for me it's around 45 via instacart (sub+tip). That's not too bad for most Americans. Even if it is for some, rice, beans, and milk alongside a wide variety of filling vegetables can be bought for gallons/pounds on the dollar. The problem isn't access to healthy meal options, it's that most Americans with a choice would rather just eat food they enjoy more. Personally I never saw the issue since private healthcare means the added health burdens get priced in.
- watwut 6y ago
  This assumes you cook own lunch and dinner. Before covid, I would had lunch next office just like everybody else. And how easy it is to find healthy balanced option there makes big difference. Plus, American version of everything contains more sugar - notably bread, sauces, cola, cereals, everything. Bread is the thing that makes massive difference. Aaaand milk is invariably low fat, which makes it less satiating. When I heart Americans talk about healthy food, they often end up citing food that can't work long term. Or that just seem designed to be tastles and punish you. You can't have the same beans your only protein source long term. Rice+beans easily amount to food that makes you both fat and hungry. Vegetables add vitamins and fibre, but absent some other fat and protein source you are bound to feel hungry.

jhayward 6y ago

Because your description of obesity has very little to do with what's actually happening. It's just more of the pernicious "sickness is due to evil, health is due to righteousness" nonsense that pervades certain demographics.

inglor_cz 6y ago

One of the factors in fattening of the UK and the USA is that many people forgot how to cook. The intergenerational transmission of this skill somehow diminished over the last decades. In contrast, in the poorest part of the world, pretty much everyone cooks at home, it would be unaffordable to live on processed foods only. But oh God, so many Westerners are absolutely clueless in the kitchen. I am not sure whether this is caused by not having enough time, by successful advertising from processed food producers or from a cultural stigma that cooking is somehow backward and a kind of self-oppression. But cooking is dying out, for the first time in human history.

ketamine__ 6y ago
It was the mission of the Hairy Bikers. They wanted people to start cooking at home again. All their recipes were high fat and high calorie. Eventually they did a weight loss show because they got so big. When my friends talk about "knowing how to cook" they are talking about making rich, luxurious foods with lots of butter, oil, eggs, and meat. It's probably worse than a hamburger from McDonald's.