4 ms·

I’m surprised this article was written during Covid. 2020 was the revenge of the suburb. Downtowns are depressing wastelands with increasing violence and home

I’m surprised this article was written during Covid. 2020 was the revenge of the suburb. Downtowns are depressing wastelands with increasing violence and homelessness. And the suburbs are... not too far from normal.

Barrin92 6y ago
Do you realise how much this sounds like the stereotypical boomer argument for the suburbs if you replace 'scary strangers' or whatever with covid? This is what created the malaise to begin with. People flee the city because of some temporary problem and create structural problems for generations. It's also a weirdly American experience in that you find practically nobody in Berlin or Tokyo or whatever whose going to move into a suburb and abandon urban life because of something that is an issue for a year or two.
- seangrogg 6y ago
  Anecdotally, I wanted to leave the city for a long time but not lose the pay. While I have no statistics at my disposal, I've also seen a non-trivial number of HNers who shared a similar view (though I likely have cognitive biases towards this similar line of thinking). Having lived in SF and San Jose, as well as having spent time in Chicago and New York... Give me a decent sized house in suburbia, a car, and a decent spot in town that doesn't look like it is just trying to die but people are keeping the husk of it alive for it's "charm". Surround me with food and entertainment that doesn't cost city prices to enjoy, passersby who greet you warmly instead of burying themselves in their phones or music, and feel free to let most of that experience be pretty generic - I don't need some to be sold on some place's history or background or mission statement when all I want is a burger. Cities are many things to many people. I respect that people enjoy them and wouldn't want to take them away from anyone. But it's not for me, never has been, and likely never will be. I'm glad to have found a company that respects that.
- MattGaiser 6y ago
  > Tokyo or whatever whose going to move into a suburb and abandon urban life because of something that is an issue for a year or two. It is happening in Japan too. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/japan-tokyo-cities-city-countryside-pandemic-coronavirus-covid-19/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/japan-tokyo-cities-ci...
  - Barrin92 6y ago
    >In September, 30,644 people moved out of Tokyo, up 12.5% year-on-year, while the number moving in fell 11.7% to 27,006, the data showed. There was a net outflow of, wait for it, 3000 people out of Tokyo in September... the city has 14 million inhabitants. That is during a pandemic with a government that's actively trying to curb the inflow into the capital. The population right now actually appears to be up compared to one year ago crossing 14 million first time mid 2020.
- supertrope 6y ago
  It is not rational to choose something inferior for some unrecognized civic duty. The government heavily subsidies the live in a detached house and drive everywhere lifestyle via free highways and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. And by literally banning apartments in many areas.
knolax 6y ago
I've gotten into more fights in the suburbs than in the city. My n=1 says the suburbs are more violent.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  How do you manage to get into fights anywhere?
  - patja 6y ago
    I can't even recall the last time I saw a physical fight. Last time I participated in one was around 1980.

Barrin92 6y ago

Do you realise how much this sounds like the stereotypical boomer argument for the suburbs if you replace 'scary strangers' or whatever with covid? This is what created the malaise to begin with. People flee the city because of some temporary problem and create structural problems for generations. It's also a weirdly American experience in that you find practically nobody in Berlin or Tokyo or whatever whose going to move into a suburb and abandon urban life because of something that is an issue for a year or two.

seangrogg 6y ago
Anecdotally, I wanted to leave the city for a long time but not lose the pay. While I have no statistics at my disposal, I've also seen a non-trivial number of HNers who shared a similar view (though I likely have cognitive biases towards this similar line of thinking). Having lived in SF and San Jose, as well as having spent time in Chicago and New York... Give me a decent sized house in suburbia, a car, and a decent spot in town that doesn't look like it is just trying to die but people are keeping the husk of it alive for it's "charm". Surround me with food and entertainment that doesn't cost city prices to enjoy, passersby who greet you warmly instead of burying themselves in their phones or music, and feel free to let most of that experience be pretty generic - I don't need some to be sold on some place's history or background or mission statement when all I want is a burger. Cities are many things to many people. I respect that people enjoy them and wouldn't want to take them away from anyone. But it's not for me, never has been, and likely never will be. I'm glad to have found a company that respects that.
MattGaiser 6y ago
> Tokyo or whatever whose going to move into a suburb and abandon urban life because of something that is an issue for a year or two. It is happening in Japan too. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/japan-tokyo-cities-city-countryside-pandemic-coronavirus-covid-19/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/japan-tokyo-cities-ci...
- Barrin92 6y ago
  >In September, 30,644 people moved out of Tokyo, up 12.5% year-on-year, while the number moving in fell 11.7% to 27,006, the data showed. There was a net outflow of, wait for it, 3000 people out of Tokyo in September... the city has 14 million inhabitants. That is during a pandemic with a government that's actively trying to curb the inflow into the capital. The population right now actually appears to be up compared to one year ago crossing 14 million first time mid 2020.
supertrope 6y ago
It is not rational to choose something inferior for some unrecognized civic duty. The government heavily subsidies the live in a detached house and drive everywhere lifestyle via free highways and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. And by literally banning apartments in many areas.

knolax 6y ago

I've gotten into more fights in the suburbs than in the city. My n=1 says the suburbs are more violent.

chrisseaton 6y ago
How do you manage to get into fights anywhere?
- patja 6y ago
  I can't even recall the last time I saw a physical fight. Last time I participated in one was around 1980.