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It doesn't. The selling point is that it strengthens teeth but there really isn't strong evidence for that. An analysis done by Harvard found it to lower IQs

It doesn't. The selling point is that it strengthens teeth but there really isn't strong evidence for that. An analysis done by Harvard found it to lower IQs in children: https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/10579664/3491930.pdf https://dash.harvard.edu/bitstream/handle/1/10579664/3491930... The data is from China but the levels at which effects were found can be found in some regions of the US. Water fluoridation started because it was a cheap and easy way to get rid of industrial chemicals: https://origins.osu.edu/article/toxic-treatment-fluorides-transformation-industrial-waste-public-health-miracle https://origins.osu.edu/article/toxic-treatment-fluorides-tr...

jcranmer 6y ago
> An analysis done by Harvard found it to lower IQs in children: Looking at that statistic, the levels of the high group are generally ranging from 2-4 mg/L. The target level of water fluoridation is usually about 0.7-1 mg/L, which is about the level of the reference groups in that statistic. As the saying goes, the dose makes the poison, and this is already extremely well-known for fluorine, and accounted for in the water treatment process and regulations.
- colordrops 6y ago
  The maximum allowed in the US is 4mg/L and the CDC recommends giving children up to 8 years old water with at least 2mg/L [1]. There are plenty of places with more than 2mg/L in the US and Kentucky has places over 4mg/L [2]. I bet everyone down-voting my comment is doing it out of reflex and has never read anything about this. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_in_the_United_States#Water_fluoridation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_in_the_Unit... [2] http://www.uky.edu/KGS/pdf/ic12_01.pdf http://www.uky.edu/KGS/pdf/ic12_01.pdf
  - jcranmer 6y ago
    > the CDC recommends giving children up to 8 years old water with at least 2mg/L [1]. Actually, the Wikipedia article says the opposite (the citation it gives is a dead link, of course)--it suggests to parents that they should be careful with having children use fluoride toothpaste or water with > 2mg/L of water. > There are plenty of places with more than 2mg/L in the US and Kentucky has places over 4mg/L [2]. If you read that study carefully as well, that's talking about the natural fluoride concentration of well water, not fluoridation within water treatment plants. (Another reason to generally prefer municipal treatment plants as a source for water: they are more likely to follow more stringent guidelines for water contaminants than individual wells).
  - Retric 6y ago
    Wikipedia isn’t correct here. PHS now recommends an optimal fluoride concentration of 0.7 milligrams/liter (mg/L). In this guidance, the optimal concentration of fluoride in drinking water is the concentration that provides the best balance of protection from dental caries while limiting the risk of dental fluorosis. The earlier PHS recommendation for fluoride concentrations was based on outdoor air temperature of geographic areas and ranged from 0.7–1.2 mg/L. This updated guidance is intended to apply to community water systems that currently fluoridate, or that will initiate fluoridation, and is based on considerations that include: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4547570/?report=classic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4547570/?report.... (Public Health Rep. 2015 Jul-Aug) Which goes on to say: For many years, nearly all of these fluoridated systems used fluoride concentrations ranging from 0.8 to 1.2 mg/L; fewer than 1% of these systems used a fluoride concentration at 0.7 mg/L (Unpublished data, Water Fluoridation Reporting System, CDC, 2010). When water systems that add fluoride implement the new PHS recommendation (0.7 mg/L), the fluoride concentration in these systems will be reduced by 0.1–0.5 mg/L, and fluoride intake from water will decline among most people served by these systems.
- thaumasiotes 6y ago
  > As the saying goes, the dose makes the poison, and this is already extremely well-known for fluorine You amused me with the image of someone thinking "the more fluorine, the better."
- M5x7wI3CmbEem10 6y ago
  when you account for cooking with fluoridated water, washing food with it, showing in it, and using it in toothpaste/mouthwash, in addition to drinking it, the numbers may add up quickly.
- therein 6y ago
  > As the saying goes, the dose makes the poison, and this is already extremely well-known for fluorine Of course this ignores the fact that it is impossible to adjust the dosage for everyone since everyone has a different level of consumption of the water source that we have "spiked". We are essentially medicating people without telling them and it is quite arbitrary. Not to even mention, we are exposing people who boil their water before they drink to higher concentrations etc. Science isn't settled on this. There is no consensus. What we are doing is blatantly wrong. How did we collectively decide with such absolute certainty that the positive impact of adding it to prevent tooth decay outweighs the risks and damages? We didn't. Also it's not like there is no alternative. Use toothpaste with Hydroxyapatite. It works.
  - selimthegrim 6y ago
    Do you have kids? Toothpaste and fluoride rinses aren’t a substitute for fluoridation - just ask poor (overwhelmingly Black and brown) North and East Portlanders
    - simoom22 6y ago
      It's a good thing cavities are the only negative health effect of poverty, just give em fluoride!
      - selimthegrim 6y ago
        Perfect is clearly the enemy of the good — no wait this was basically a bunch of people who didn’t want to be disturbed or inconvenienced in the least and thought they knew better
    - therein 6y ago
      Not a reason to spike anyone's water source. Aren't poor families more likely to make stews/soups that they'll store in the fridge for many days and bring to a boil every day so that the whole family can consume? Won't they top this off with more of the water you (collectively) spiked? And bring it to a boil again, increasing the fluoride concentration. Why not distribute this incredible miracle/poison in tablet form for free to these poor families you think this is aiming to protect or provide free dental care if you think dental care is of utmost importance? We clearly think kidneys (dialysis) are special because a past president had a relative that suffered from a kidney condition. None of this is being done out of good intentions. Most involved are either misinformed because they are taught science is settled and it is safe and great, or simply uninformed.
jtbayly 6y ago
> Water fluoridation started because it was a cheap and easy way to get rid of industrial chemicals That's fascinating, because this is an article trying to figure out what to do with such chemicals. If treating water with fluoride is a cheap way to help, I suppose we should continue.
- simoom22 6y ago
  No, flouride was the chemical they were trying to get rid of.

jcranmer 6y ago

> An analysis done by Harvard found it to lower IQs in children: Looking at that statistic, the levels of the high group are generally ranging from 2-4 mg/L. The target level of water fluoridation is usually about 0.7-1 mg/L, which is about the level of the reference groups in that statistic. As the saying goes, the dose makes the poison, and this is already extremely well-known for fluorine, and accounted for in the water treatment process and regulations.

colordrops 6y ago
The maximum allowed in the US is 4mg/L and the CDC recommends giving children up to 8 years old water with at least 2mg/L [1]. There are plenty of places with more than 2mg/L in the US and Kentucky has places over 4mg/L [2]. I bet everyone down-voting my comment is doing it out of reflex and has never read anything about this. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_in_the_United_States#Water_fluoridation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_in_the_Unit... [2] http://www.uky.edu/KGS/pdf/ic12_01.pdf http://www.uky.edu/KGS/pdf/ic12_01.pdf
- jcranmer 6y ago
  > the CDC recommends giving children up to 8 years old water with at least 2mg/L [1]. Actually, the Wikipedia article says the opposite (the citation it gives is a dead link, of course)--it suggests to parents that they should be careful with having children use fluoride toothpaste or water with > 2mg/L of water. > There are plenty of places with more than 2mg/L in the US and Kentucky has places over 4mg/L [2]. If you read that study carefully as well, that's talking about the natural fluoride concentration of well water, not fluoridation within water treatment plants. (Another reason to generally prefer municipal treatment plants as a source for water: they are more likely to follow more stringent guidelines for water contaminants than individual wells).
- Retric 6y ago
  Wikipedia isn’t correct here. PHS now recommends an optimal fluoride concentration of 0.7 milligrams/liter (mg/L). In this guidance, the optimal concentration of fluoride in drinking water is the concentration that provides the best balance of protection from dental caries while limiting the risk of dental fluorosis. The earlier PHS recommendation for fluoride concentrations was based on outdoor air temperature of geographic areas and ranged from 0.7–1.2 mg/L. This updated guidance is intended to apply to community water systems that currently fluoridate, or that will initiate fluoridation, and is based on considerations that include: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4547570/?report=classic https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4547570/?report.... (Public Health Rep. 2015 Jul-Aug) Which goes on to say: For many years, nearly all of these fluoridated systems used fluoride concentrations ranging from 0.8 to 1.2 mg/L; fewer than 1% of these systems used a fluoride concentration at 0.7 mg/L (Unpublished data, Water Fluoridation Reporting System, CDC, 2010). When water systems that add fluoride implement the new PHS recommendation (0.7 mg/L), the fluoride concentration in these systems will be reduced by 0.1–0.5 mg/L, and fluoride intake from water will decline among most people served by these systems.
thaumasiotes 6y ago
> As the saying goes, the dose makes the poison, and this is already extremely well-known for fluorine You amused me with the image of someone thinking "the more fluorine, the better."
M5x7wI3CmbEem10 6y ago
when you account for cooking with fluoridated water, washing food with it, showing in it, and using it in toothpaste/mouthwash, in addition to drinking it, the numbers may add up quickly.
therein 6y ago
> As the saying goes, the dose makes the poison, and this is already extremely well-known for fluorine Of course this ignores the fact that it is impossible to adjust the dosage for everyone since everyone has a different level of consumption of the water source that we have "spiked". We are essentially medicating people without telling them and it is quite arbitrary. Not to even mention, we are exposing people who boil their water before they drink to higher concentrations etc. Science isn't settled on this. There is no consensus. What we are doing is blatantly wrong. How did we collectively decide with such absolute certainty that the positive impact of adding it to prevent tooth decay outweighs the risks and damages? We didn't. Also it's not like there is no alternative. Use toothpaste with Hydroxyapatite. It works.
- selimthegrim 6y ago
  Do you have kids? Toothpaste and fluoride rinses aren’t a substitute for fluoridation - just ask poor (overwhelmingly Black and brown) North and East Portlanders
  - simoom22 6y ago
    It's a good thing cavities are the only negative health effect of poverty, just give em fluoride!
    - selimthegrim 6y ago
      Perfect is clearly the enemy of the good — no wait this was basically a bunch of people who didn’t want to be disturbed or inconvenienced in the least and thought they knew better
  - therein 6y ago
    Not a reason to spike anyone's water source. Aren't poor families more likely to make stews/soups that they'll store in the fridge for many days and bring to a boil every day so that the whole family can consume? Won't they top this off with more of the water you (collectively) spiked? And bring it to a boil again, increasing the fluoride concentration. Why not distribute this incredible miracle/poison in tablet form for free to these poor families you think this is aiming to protect or provide free dental care if you think dental care is of utmost importance? We clearly think kidneys (dialysis) are special because a past president had a relative that suffered from a kidney condition. None of this is being done out of good intentions. Most involved are either misinformed because they are taught science is settled and it is safe and great, or simply uninformed.

jtbayly 6y ago

> Water fluoridation started because it was a cheap and easy way to get rid of industrial chemicals That's fascinating, because this is an article trying to figure out what to do with such chemicals. If treating water with fluoride is a cheap way to help, I suppose we should continue.

simoom22 6y ago
No, flouride was the chemical they were trying to get rid of.