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On the page, he comments roughly "Basic isn't the language of the future" and makes a joke about the wide usage of Visual Basic. We shouldn't cast shade on any

by hakfoo 6y ago

On the page, he comments roughly "Basic isn't the language of the future" and makes a joke about the wide usage of Visual Basic. We shouldn't cast shade on any language like that ( except JavaScript, which deserves all the shade). The right programming language is the one that lets you express yourself clearly and accurately, and solves your problem with a reasonable tradeoff between implementation overhead and execution costs. That's going to vary based on the problem space and the developer's background. Should he spend 40 hours learning the latest meme language and cobbling together an amateur-night solution rather than 20 minutes actually making something that works with tools that fit the job properly? Yeah, if the only BASIC you ever used was the pack-in one on the Commodore 64, you're probably fighting the language as much as you are solving the problem. But a modern BASIC, with a rich library, can be a perfectly valid tool choice. In some ways, a traditional and restrictive syntax can be a boon: you're strongly nudged to work within the limitations rather than wandering down trendy architectural rabbit holes.

newswasboring 6y ago
> The right programming language is the one that lets you express yourself clearly and accurately, and solves your problem with a reasonable tradeoff between implementation overhead and execution costs. Yeah but thats not the reason why BASIC is around is it? Its around simply as legacy or because MS insists on including it with Excel which makes it a path of least resistance choice. Lets not get too high and mighty about BASIC or VB.NET like stuff. They are bad tools, so are most other tools we use. We just make it work not because its possible, but because nobody wants to go through the requisition forms. Edit: This comment is brought to you by my painful existence with MATLAB
- JohnStrangeII 6y ago
  It's not just for legacy purposes. I've written a few useful personal tools in Purebasic, for instance. BASIC dialects tend to provide the functionality needed and can be handy for quickly throwing something together when you don't have the time to deal with GUI frameworks and complex libraries. You can also use Python or Go, of course, but they do not have integrated IDE and do not have a rich command set in the core language. Easy deployment and compact executables are also a plus of some existing BASIC dialects. If I had the money / the investment in a license would give me a good ROI, then I'd also pay for Xojo, for example. Whatever gets the job done without wasting time.
  - newswasboring 6y ago
    > Whatever gets the job done without wasting time. Completely agreed. My point isn't that these tools can get the job done, but that I see too many people praising them because they can get the job done. There is a difference between done and useful. I can throw together a market model in excel quite fast and easily, its "done". It might even be useful in your case, but please don't give high praise to it because no real world task has ever ended with that task. Everything you will create, especially software will be reused. That's the whole point and power of software. These tools make it incredibly hard to reuse anything. I think we should have higher standards for our tools, especially when whole companies are being built on it (don't think google here, think portfolio management companies and Excel). Edit: I would like to include an example of a spoon. I can bash in a small nail using it, it will not be good, but it will be done. It will stick one piece of wood to another. but would you praise the spoon as a hammer replacement?
    - pjmlp 6y ago
      In a life sciences research center I worked with, the work was definitely not done after those scientists got their csv processed files out of the cell reader own data format, generated using their home made VB.NET tool. It didn't matter, those files were done used as input data into Tableau for further processing, where they could carry on doing the work that actually mattered to them.
      - newswasboring 6y ago
        I never said you cannot do stuff using VB.NET. Why is this so hard to understand? My point is was VB.NET the best way to do it? Should we praise the tool as good? How do you know that this excel thing, which does not support testing, does not provide feedback when stuff goes wrong will not blow up in your face like that COVID excel[1] from UK did? Please go back and re read my example about the spoon. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988
        pjmlp 6y ago

by hakfoo 6y ago

newswasboring 6y ago

> The right programming language is the one that lets you express yourself clearly and accurately, and solves your problem with a reasonable tradeoff between implementation overhead and execution costs. Yeah but thats not the reason why BASIC is around is it? Its around simply as legacy or because MS insists on including it with Excel which makes it a path of least resistance choice. Lets not get too high and mighty about BASIC or VB.NET like stuff. They are bad tools, so are most other tools we use. We just make it work not because its possible, but because nobody wants to go through the requisition forms. Edit: This comment is brought to you by my painful existence with MATLAB

JohnStrangeII 6y ago
It's not just for legacy purposes. I've written a few useful personal tools in Purebasic, for instance. BASIC dialects tend to provide the functionality needed and can be handy for quickly throwing something together when you don't have the time to deal with GUI frameworks and complex libraries. You can also use Python or Go, of course, but they do not have integrated IDE and do not have a rich command set in the core language. Easy deployment and compact executables are also a plus of some existing BASIC dialects. If I had the money / the investment in a license would give me a good ROI, then I'd also pay for Xojo, for example. Whatever gets the job done without wasting time.
- newswasboring 6y ago
  > Whatever gets the job done without wasting time. Completely agreed. My point isn't that these tools can get the job done, but that I see too many people praising them because they can get the job done. There is a difference between done and useful. I can throw together a market model in excel quite fast and easily, its "done". It might even be useful in your case, but please don't give high praise to it because no real world task has ever ended with that task. Everything you will create, especially software will be reused. That's the whole point and power of software. These tools make it incredibly hard to reuse anything. I think we should have higher standards for our tools, especially when whole companies are being built on it (don't think google here, think portfolio management companies and Excel). Edit: I would like to include an example of a spoon. I can bash in a small nail using it, it will not be good, but it will be done. It will stick one piece of wood to another. but would you praise the spoon as a hammer replacement?
  - pjmlp 6y ago
    In a life sciences research center I worked with, the work was definitely not done after those scientists got their csv processed files out of the cell reader own data format, generated using their home made VB.NET tool. It didn't matter, those files were done used as input data into Tableau for further processing, where they could carry on doing the work that actually mattered to them.
    - newswasboring 6y ago
      I never said you cannot do stuff using VB.NET. Why is this so hard to understand? My point is was VB.NET the best way to do it? Should we praise the tool as good? How do you know that this excel thing, which does not support testing, does not provide feedback when stuff goes wrong will not blow up in your face like that COVID excel[1] from UK did? Please go back and re read my example about the spoon. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54423988
      - pjmlp 6y ago