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Most of the things you’re describing are actually the consequences of things being really broken. Some of that is obvious (e.g. point 2), but the rest is subtle

Most of the things you’re describing are actually the consequences of things being really broken. Some of that is obvious (e.g. point 2), but the rest is subtle. My biggest concern is #1. While everyone has always socialized at work, it seems like modern Americans depend more on work for socialization than ever before. That is probably not a good thing, especially since modern professionals job hop more than ever. A world where more workers are encouraged to have friends and social circles outside of work is not a bad thing, in my opinion.

kbar13 6y ago
i think there's a balance. i agree that having friends outside the workplace is important, but i don't see why that means making friends in the workplace is bad. we have friends that we see during the workday and occasionally see outside the workplace, then we have friends for all the other time.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  Making friends in the work place isn’t bad; I didn’t say that and such an assertion would be obviously silly. Depending on work for social interactions is bad. That is what I’m seeing more of, and that is something I think should change.
dannyw 6y ago
Sure, but I’d like to have friends at work and friends outside of work. Nothing wrong with job hopping either: if you make a good friend, you’ll keep on connecting even after you switch jobs.
- ashtonkem 6y ago
  I’m not sure why everyone is interpreting me as having said “having friends at work is bad”. That’s obviously a silly statement, which is why I didn’t make it. Depending on work for socialization is bad. That’s what I’m arguing against.
dv_dt 6y ago
#1 is because Americans spend way to much time at work, so much time that it's difficult to find time to socialize out of work. People are social animals so they'll increase their interaction there (also lowering productivity in office). I think WFH coupled with reduced hour days or 4 day weeks would be a much better combo for high productivity in the office.
- rapsey 6y ago
  Americans also start work really late. 9 to 5 takes up the whole day. Where I am at most start at 7 or 8.
  - cco 6y ago
    Where is that? My only other living experience outside of America has been Europe, and Europe seemed to start later and stay later compared with America(sans SF, SF is a special place where everyone goes to bed early and wakes up late).
    - rapsey 6y ago
      Also Europe but as the sibling comment said, this kind of thing is very region specific. Over here school starting at 7am is pretty normal. Probably more so than 8am and no one starts at 9am. Lots of jobs also start 7am. So people get up earlier. Even for jobs that are not as time sensitive as IT, people being at work at 7am or earlier is completely normal, especially if they have kids.
  - nobody9999 6y ago
    > Americans also start work really late. 9 to 5 takes up the whole day. Where I am at most start at 7 or 8. There are many places and jobs in the US where people start work at 8 or even 7. That seems to be functions of both industry and region.
    - ashtonkem 6y ago
      The regional effects are strong. I’ve only done software, but even within that narrow domain I’ve seen a 4 hour difference. The west coast specifically seems to bias super late, and I was shocked when I joined $EMPLOYER that the norm was roughly 11am to 7pm.
tolbish 6y ago
Good point. Even pre-Covid, I think most people don't have much of a third place. It's work or home for the majority of socialization, and maybe the occasional hang out or outdoorsy activity with friends.

kbar13 6y ago

i think there's a balance. i agree that having friends outside the workplace is important, but i don't see why that means making friends in the workplace is bad. we have friends that we see during the workday and occasionally see outside the workplace, then we have friends for all the other time.

ashtonkem 6y ago
Making friends in the work place isn’t bad; I didn’t say that and such an assertion would be obviously silly. Depending on work for social interactions is bad. That is what I’m seeing more of, and that is something I think should change.

dannyw 6y ago

Sure, but I’d like to have friends at work and friends outside of work. Nothing wrong with job hopping either: if you make a good friend, you’ll keep on connecting even after you switch jobs.

ashtonkem 6y ago
I’m not sure why everyone is interpreting me as having said “having friends at work is bad”. That’s obviously a silly statement, which is why I didn’t make it. Depending on work for socialization is bad. That’s what I’m arguing against.

dv_dt 6y ago

#1 is because Americans spend way to much time at work, so much time that it's difficult to find time to socialize out of work. People are social animals so they'll increase their interaction there (also lowering productivity in office). I think WFH coupled with reduced hour days or 4 day weeks would be a much better combo for high productivity in the office.

rapsey 6y ago
Americans also start work really late. 9 to 5 takes up the whole day. Where I am at most start at 7 or 8.
- cco 6y ago
  Where is that? My only other living experience outside of America has been Europe, and Europe seemed to start later and stay later compared with America(sans SF, SF is a special place where everyone goes to bed early and wakes up late).
  - rapsey 6y ago
    Also Europe but as the sibling comment said, this kind of thing is very region specific. Over here school starting at 7am is pretty normal. Probably more so than 8am and no one starts at 9am. Lots of jobs also start 7am. So people get up earlier. Even for jobs that are not as time sensitive as IT, people being at work at 7am or earlier is completely normal, especially if they have kids.
- nobody9999 6y ago
  > Americans also start work really late. 9 to 5 takes up the whole day. Where I am at most start at 7 or 8. There are many places and jobs in the US where people start work at 8 or even 7. That seems to be functions of both industry and region.
  - ashtonkem 6y ago
    The regional effects are strong. I’ve only done software, but even within that narrow domain I’ve seen a 4 hour difference. The west coast specifically seems to bias super late, and I was shocked when I joined $EMPLOYER that the norm was roughly 11am to 7pm.

tolbish 6y ago

Good point. Even pre-Covid, I think most people don't have much of a third place. It's work or home for the majority of socialization, and maybe the occasional hang out or outdoorsy activity with friends.