4 ms·

Go ahead, quit your job, move to the woods and live off the land. What is your point?

WarChortle 6y ago
Not OP but, Capitalism deems profit above everything else. Maybe profit shouldn't come before our own safety. Almost all safety regulations are paid for in blood sometimes its because we just didn't know. Most of the time its because companies refuse to implement it unless they have to by law. We are sacrificing our own health for what? Money? No one is saying we shouldn't have jobs don't be dense. Maybe we shouldn't value money over literally everything else.
- Camillo 6y ago
  https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-crime-of-the-20th-century-russia-whaling-67774 https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-c...
  - WarChortle 6y ago
    You need to do more then just link an article about a Communist country doing something shitty. I never advocated for a particular style of government. So linking some horrible thing the USSR did doesn't further the conversation in anyway. And if your only response to Capitalism is bad is to show worse form of government then you really don't have an argument to defend Capitalism.
- vixen99 6y ago
  Capitalism doesn't 'deem' anything. Let's remain literal. It's a word denoting the concept of freedom for individuals to extract and use value from their activities to secure an economic base for themselves. Groups of the rest of us can then form independent judgements on those activities and regulate them by law. In this way, all-powerful sanctions are available for governments and regulators to haul in those activities which pollute our world. Separation of function is key to this process and is absent in communist societies hence the appalling pollution created by the USSR in its heyday. Sadly, governments and their regulators do, in the main, a woeful job in performing their regulatory duties.
  - WarChortle 6y ago
    Why can't I have a conversation about Capitalism without people putting out how much worse the USSR is/was? I'm not saying your wrong but we can talk about the failings of our country without whataboutism to "defend it". Capitalism is too broad a concept to boil it down to a short description. My argument is about what Capitalism lead to the greed and moral failings of our country. Capitalism is so en-grained in the American way of life its hard to separate the two. Our style of government lead to more and more greedy people doing more and more underhanded things to make a profit and thus in turn maintaining that profit. America is pointed out as the shining example of how successful Capitalism is as a form of government and its not. You point to the failings of the USSR to protect its environment and ignore our own. Yes we have an EPA which is a good step, but our form of government enabled private citizens and corporations to essentially purchase the ability to pollute. To put chemicals in our food and water that was cheap, but necessarily safe. Our country is failing just as poorly at protecting its citizens health and environment as the USSR. We just have the ability to point to the EPA and say we are trying harder so that's good enough. Its not, The EPA has refused to add a single chemical to its watch list for public water since the clean water act of 1972. Our water standards are based on science that is almost 50 years old. If you think its because in those 50 years we haven't learned anymore about health, then i have a bridge to sell you. Its because updating those standards would cost money and not have any direct monetary benefit in return, because we live in a country/exist in a form of government that prioritizes profit over the health of its own citizens.
- fuzzfactor 6y ago
  >Capitalism deems profit above everything else. Didn't downvote but I don't agree. Capitalism can thrive and everybody can win in a more sustainable progressive way than we have now with simply a respectable return on investments, and as an extreme example foregoing all other available profits. When free enterprise is available it might be a way to adjust your stance across this spectrum, but free enterprise, capitalism, and greed are three common things that have no real requirement to appear together although individuals or corporations are often seen who do nothing but combine all three and push it beyond any reasonable limit. Some kids just don't know any better. This is why we can't have good things.
adrianN 6y ago
Profit first capitalism and subsistence farming are not the only two options, you know.
- fnord77 6y ago
  they are when reductionism is the only tool in your toolbox!
bartwe 6y ago
No woods left

Not OP but, Capitalism deems profit above everything else. Maybe profit shouldn't come before our own safety. Almost all safety regulations are paid for in blood sometimes its because we just didn't know. Most of the time its because companies refuse to implement it unless they have to by law. We are sacrificing our own health for what? Money? No one is saying we shouldn't have jobs don't be dense. Maybe we shouldn't value money over literally everything else.

Camillo 6y ago
https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-crime-of-the-20th-century-russia-whaling-67774 https://psmag.com/social-justice/the-senseless-environment-c...
- WarChortle 6y ago
  You need to do more then just link an article about a Communist country doing something shitty. I never advocated for a particular style of government. So linking some horrible thing the USSR did doesn't further the conversation in anyway. And if your only response to Capitalism is bad is to show worse form of government then you really don't have an argument to defend Capitalism.
vixen99 6y ago
Capitalism doesn't 'deem' anything. Let's remain literal. It's a word denoting the concept of freedom for individuals to extract and use value from their activities to secure an economic base for themselves. Groups of the rest of us can then form independent judgements on those activities and regulate them by law. In this way, all-powerful sanctions are available for governments and regulators to haul in those activities which pollute our world. Separation of function is key to this process and is absent in communist societies hence the appalling pollution created by the USSR in its heyday. Sadly, governments and their regulators do, in the main, a woeful job in performing their regulatory duties.
- WarChortle 6y ago
  Why can't I have a conversation about Capitalism without people putting out how much worse the USSR is/was? I'm not saying your wrong but we can talk about the failings of our country without whataboutism to "defend it". Capitalism is too broad a concept to boil it down to a short description. My argument is about what Capitalism lead to the greed and moral failings of our country. Capitalism is so en-grained in the American way of life its hard to separate the two. Our style of government lead to more and more greedy people doing more and more underhanded things to make a profit and thus in turn maintaining that profit. America is pointed out as the shining example of how successful Capitalism is as a form of government and its not. You point to the failings of the USSR to protect its environment and ignore our own. Yes we have an EPA which is a good step, but our form of government enabled private citizens and corporations to essentially purchase the ability to pollute. To put chemicals in our food and water that was cheap, but necessarily safe. Our country is failing just as poorly at protecting its citizens health and environment as the USSR. We just have the ability to point to the EPA and say we are trying harder so that's good enough. Its not, The EPA has refused to add a single chemical to its watch list for public water since the clean water act of 1972. Our water standards are based on science that is almost 50 years old. If you think its because in those 50 years we haven't learned anymore about health, then i have a bridge to sell you. Its because updating those standards would cost money and not have any direct monetary benefit in return, because we live in a country/exist in a form of government that prioritizes profit over the health of its own citizens.
fuzzfactor 6y ago
>Capitalism deems profit above everything else. Didn't downvote but I don't agree. Capitalism can thrive and everybody can win in a more sustainable progressive way than we have now with simply a respectable return on investments, and as an extreme example foregoing all other available profits. When free enterprise is available it might be a way to adjust your stance across this spectrum, but free enterprise, capitalism, and greed are three common things that have no real requirement to appear together although individuals or corporations are often seen who do nothing but combine all three and push it beyond any reasonable limit. Some kids just don't know any better. This is why we can't have good things.

adrianN 6y ago

Profit first capitalism and subsistence farming are not the only two options, you know.

fnord77 6y ago
they are when reductionism is the only tool in your toolbox!

bartwe 6y ago

No woods left