4 ms·

The vacuum devices take more effort, but work well for up to a week or so.

dhsysusbsjsi 6y ago
I think the author is incorrect about vacuvin being rubbish, and loses all credibility when describing replacing the cork being a good method, but vacuum sealers being ineffective. The beginning of the article asserts that oxidation is one of the primary causes of wine going bad, then completely dismisses vacuum systems, which remove most oxygen out of the bottle. Scientifically, this MUST be superior to simply replacing the cork (or screw cap in Australia). I’ve found that if I open the bottle and pour two glasses and immediately seal and vacuum (most of) the air out, I can get about 2-4 days of the wine tasting good stored at room temperature, versus about 1 day simply replacing the lid.
- carlmr 6y ago
  Yeah, I have great experience with vacuvin, except that my first vacuum piston broke after 2 years. I even drank a wine after 10 days that, while not great, was still drinkable. It was like a 2 day open bottle roughly.
- tetrazine 6y ago
  > Scientifically, this MUST be superior to simply replacing the cork (or screw cap in Australia). Why must this be the case? This is a genuine question, not a pure objection. Consider two oxygen levels, o_1 and o_2, where o_2 << o_1 due to vacuum removal. Consider a set of chemical reactions that occur between wine and the surrounding environment. Of oxygen, glass, trace chemicals, cosmic rays, astological auras, etc. Let ℜ be the set of chemical reations that affect phenomenological quality (flavour) (presumably negatively, as a just-opened bottle of wine is at the peak of quality and can only degrade). Why must it be the case that o_2 is the limiting factor for all, or even some, of the elements of ℜ? What if another quantity (surface area, pressure, etc) limits the pace or extent of the reaction, and just as much degradation occurs with partial vacuuming (o_2) as without (o_1)? Perhaps you or someone else is a wine chemist, professional or amateur, and can enlighten me. Until that point, there are more things in heaven and Earth, dear dhsysusbsjsi, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
  - arijun 6y ago
    You’re 100% correct that it doesn’t have to be better, if gp was wrong about oxidization being the main issue. If the largest problem was evaporation of some oils or something, the vacuum would likely exacerbate the problem (imagine someone vacuum sealing a carbonated drink thinking it would preserve the carbonation!). In the end, though, I think most people discover that those pumps do help preserve the wine for significantly more time.
  - rprwhite 6y ago
    Wine is a very reactive environment for oxygen. So oxygen will definitely be the limiting factor, because all the chemical reactions have been starved of oxygen (if you’re interested lookup the Fenton reaction). Of course, it’s not always that simple. If you have an very old wine it’s probably been oxidised, due oxygen ingress from the closure, in which case the vacuum is just sucking out the very small amount of remaining volatile compounds. Also, dissolved CO2 is very important in wine, even still wine, so if you have a light bodied, “fresh” wine vacuuming is going to lower the dCO2 - this will generally make it seem worse. Bringing it back to oxygen - increasing dCO2 can be used to increase shelf life, by decreasing oxidation, on wines where you want to limit use of SO2.
  - stjohnswarts 6y ago
    there are also lots of screw cap wines in the states and other places.
- sanedigital 6y ago
  Vacuum systems aren't bad because they don't remove the oxygen, they're bad because they create a pressure differential that begins pulling some of the aromas out of the wine.
- wyclif 6y ago
  I was in the market for a Vacuvin, but I ended up looking hard at both the Coravin and the Eto (both also mentioned in the article). I went with the Eto for a few reasons. One was price (pays for itself after a few bottles of wine), but the main reason was that it's so much simpler with fewer moving parts and there are no cartridges to replace. And it works well. I recommend the stainless steel version. Happy customer.
  - DennisP 6y ago
    Why the stainless steel version?
    - wyclif 6y ago
      I don't have any proof of this because that's the one I have, but I wondered if the brass versions would get discolored quickly because of interacting with the wine. Stainless is easy to clean.
  - jkmcf 6y ago
    I was an initial Kickstarter backer and it works very well. Just remember to clean it sooner than later or you have to break out the baking soda to get rid of the smell!
- varjag 6y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degassing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degassing
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  his point was that it was no more effective than corking it and putting it back in the fridge not that it did nothing at all.
- cycrutchfield 6y ago
  Vacuvins don’t maintain enough of a pressure differential to make a difference. It’s not like you are pulling a hard vacuum and maintaining it. At best you reduce the amount of O2 by a relatively small fraction. As others have stated, losing more volatile aromas into the head space of the bottle is the larger consequence of these devices.
sanedigital 6y ago
I disagree: with the vacuum devices you're creating a pressure differential that's likely to pull aroma compounds you want to keep in the wine out into the bottle.

I think the author is incorrect about vacuvin being rubbish, and loses all credibility when describing replacing the cork being a good method, but vacuum sealers being ineffective. The beginning of the article asserts that oxidation is one of the primary causes of wine going bad, then completely dismisses vacuum systems, which remove most oxygen out of the bottle. Scientifically, this MUST be superior to simply replacing the cork (or screw cap in Australia). I’ve found that if I open the bottle and pour two glasses and immediately seal and vacuum (most of) the air out, I can get about 2-4 days of the wine tasting good stored at room temperature, versus about 1 day simply replacing the lid.

carlmr 6y ago
Yeah, I have great experience with vacuvin, except that my first vacuum piston broke after 2 years. I even drank a wine after 10 days that, while not great, was still drinkable. It was like a 2 day open bottle roughly.
tetrazine 6y ago
> Scientifically, this MUST be superior to simply replacing the cork (or screw cap in Australia). Why must this be the case? This is a genuine question, not a pure objection. Consider two oxygen levels, o_1 and o_2, where o_2 << o_1 due to vacuum removal. Consider a set of chemical reactions that occur between wine and the surrounding environment. Of oxygen, glass, trace chemicals, cosmic rays, astological auras, etc. Let ℜ be the set of chemical reations that affect phenomenological quality (flavour) (presumably negatively, as a just-opened bottle of wine is at the peak of quality and can only degrade). Why must it be the case that o_2 is the limiting factor for all, or even some, of the elements of ℜ? What if another quantity (surface area, pressure, etc) limits the pace or extent of the reaction, and just as much degradation occurs with partial vacuuming (o_2) as without (o_1)? Perhaps you or someone else is a wine chemist, professional or amateur, and can enlighten me. Until that point, there are more things in heaven and Earth, dear dhsysusbsjsi, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- arijun 6y ago
  You’re 100% correct that it doesn’t have to be better, if gp was wrong about oxidization being the main issue. If the largest problem was evaporation of some oils or something, the vacuum would likely exacerbate the problem (imagine someone vacuum sealing a carbonated drink thinking it would preserve the carbonation!). In the end, though, I think most people discover that those pumps do help preserve the wine for significantly more time.
- rprwhite 6y ago
  Wine is a very reactive environment for oxygen. So oxygen will definitely be the limiting factor, because all the chemical reactions have been starved of oxygen (if you’re interested lookup the Fenton reaction). Of course, it’s not always that simple. If you have an very old wine it’s probably been oxidised, due oxygen ingress from the closure, in which case the vacuum is just sucking out the very small amount of remaining volatile compounds. Also, dissolved CO2 is very important in wine, even still wine, so if you have a light bodied, “fresh” wine vacuuming is going to lower the dCO2 - this will generally make it seem worse. Bringing it back to oxygen - increasing dCO2 can be used to increase shelf life, by decreasing oxidation, on wines where you want to limit use of SO2.
- stjohnswarts 6y ago
  there are also lots of screw cap wines in the states and other places.
sanedigital 6y ago
Vacuum systems aren't bad because they don't remove the oxygen, they're bad because they create a pressure differential that begins pulling some of the aromas out of the wine.
wyclif 6y ago
I was in the market for a Vacuvin, but I ended up looking hard at both the Coravin and the Eto (both also mentioned in the article). I went with the Eto for a few reasons. One was price (pays for itself after a few bottles of wine), but the main reason was that it's so much simpler with fewer moving parts and there are no cartridges to replace. And it works well. I recommend the stainless steel version. Happy customer.
- DennisP 6y ago
  Why the stainless steel version?
  - wyclif 6y ago
    I don't have any proof of this because that's the one I have, but I wondered if the brass versions would get discolored quickly because of interacting with the wine. Stainless is easy to clean.
- jkmcf 6y ago
  I was an initial Kickstarter backer and it works very well. Just remember to clean it sooner than later or you have to break out the baking soda to get rid of the smell!
varjag 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degassing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degassing
stjohnswarts 6y ago
his point was that it was no more effective than corking it and putting it back in the fridge not that it did nothing at all.
cycrutchfield 6y ago
Vacuvins don’t maintain enough of a pressure differential to make a difference. It’s not like you are pulling a hard vacuum and maintaining it. At best you reduce the amount of O2 by a relatively small fraction. As others have stated, losing more volatile aromas into the head space of the bottle is the larger consequence of these devices.

sanedigital 6y ago

I disagree: with the vacuum devices you're creating a pressure differential that's likely to pull aroma compounds you want to keep in the wine out into the bottle.