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JAM stack (this term is trademarked by Netlify, FYI) is such an awful trend for anyone but developers. The web runs on WordPress because it's SO easy for anyone

JAM stack (this term is trademarked by Netlify, FYI) is such an awful trend for anyone but developers. The web runs on WordPress because it's SO easy for anyone to stand up a quality, functional website. I drop in on a local WordPress event a few times a year and many of the people there are 60+ and very much non technical but have put together great sites that benefit humanity.

onion2k 6y ago
it's SO easy for anyone to stand up a quality, functional website And its also really easy for it to be left without updates or security patches, with an insecure admin account password, and with a set of plugins that open up more security problems. It might be a bit harder to get up and running with a static site generator but the fact that it's essentially unhackable (through the site itself; the host server has the same issues as any website) is a massive advantage.
- kirstenbirgit 6y ago
  WordPress has automatic updates, and you actually have to enter a hard to guess password when creating an account. The plugin issue is not specific to WordPress.
  - onion2k 6y ago
    The plugin issue is not specific to WordPress. The fact that other platforms and applications are insecure isn't relevant; we're comparing static sites to WordPress. However, to answer the point, static sites are significantly more secure than every single dynamic platform that supports a plugin architecture because plugins can be, and often are, written without security in mind. Unless you really need a dynamic website you should be deploying static assets to the enduser. Practically every business website would be better off being delivered as a static site, even if the admin still use WordPress to edit the content.
- XCSme 6y ago
  I agree that WordPress security is a huge issue, the biggest potential problem is that not when a random website goes down but when someone finds a mass-exploit and then gets access to millions of websites. > It might be a bit harder to get up and running with a static site generator but the fact that it's essentially unhackable You could also use WordPress to generate a static site, just add a caching level on top.
ehnto 6y ago
> JAM stack (this term is trademarked by Netlify, FYI) is such an awful trend for anyone but developers JAMstack sites are annoying to build, so much minutiae and configuration, abstractions on top of abstractions, and you never own the codebase as it's frameworks and libraries all the way down. You spend half your time trying to figure out if X could work with Y, rather than just making X do Y's job by writing some actual code for a change.
- schwartzworld 6y ago
  > you never own the codebase as it's frameworks and libraries all the way down. Frameworks and libraries aren't really necessary for JAMstack. JAMstack really just means relying on external services for dynamic content. You don't have to use Gatsby or Hugo or whatever. A JAMstack site can be a single HTML page with a script tag (and all mine usually are). I built my own static site generator and I feel so much more ownership over the code. You should try it. Not only is it my code all the way down, but it only runs on my machine. All the generated assets will remain functional and security bug free as long as browsers understand HTML, CSS and JS, even if I never update the code again.
swyx 6y ago
TIL they have a trademark application pending https://uspto.report/TM/88746545 https://uspto.report/TM/88746545 what is the implication of such a trademark? can unaffiliated companies not use the term now? this is a little surprising.

onion2k 6y ago

it's SO easy for anyone to stand up a quality, functional website And its also really easy for it to be left without updates or security patches, with an insecure admin account password, and with a set of plugins that open up more security problems. It might be a bit harder to get up and running with a static site generator but the fact that it's essentially unhackable (through the site itself; the host server has the same issues as any website) is a massive advantage.

kirstenbirgit 6y ago
WordPress has automatic updates, and you actually have to enter a hard to guess password when creating an account. The plugin issue is not specific to WordPress.
- onion2k 6y ago
  The plugin issue is not specific to WordPress. The fact that other platforms and applications are insecure isn't relevant; we're comparing static sites to WordPress. However, to answer the point, static sites are significantly more secure than every single dynamic platform that supports a plugin architecture because plugins can be, and often are, written without security in mind. Unless you really need a dynamic website you should be deploying static assets to the enduser. Practically every business website would be better off being delivered as a static site, even if the admin still use WordPress to edit the content.
XCSme 6y ago
I agree that WordPress security is a huge issue, the biggest potential problem is that not when a random website goes down but when someone finds a mass-exploit and then gets access to millions of websites. > It might be a bit harder to get up and running with a static site generator but the fact that it's essentially unhackable You could also use WordPress to generate a static site, just add a caching level on top.

ehnto 6y ago

> JAM stack (this term is trademarked by Netlify, FYI) is such an awful trend for anyone but developers JAMstack sites are annoying to build, so much minutiae and configuration, abstractions on top of abstractions, and you never own the codebase as it's frameworks and libraries all the way down. You spend half your time trying to figure out if X could work with Y, rather than just making X do Y's job by writing some actual code for a change.

schwartzworld 6y ago
> you never own the codebase as it's frameworks and libraries all the way down. Frameworks and libraries aren't really necessary for JAMstack. JAMstack really just means relying on external services for dynamic content. You don't have to use Gatsby or Hugo or whatever. A JAMstack site can be a single HTML page with a script tag (and all mine usually are). I built my own static site generator and I feel so much more ownership over the code. You should try it. Not only is it my code all the way down, but it only runs on my machine. All the generated assets will remain functional and security bug free as long as browsers understand HTML, CSS and JS, even if I never update the code again.

swyx 6y ago

TIL they have a trademark application pending https://uspto.report/TM/88746545 https://uspto.report/TM/88746545 what is the implication of such a trademark? can unaffiliated companies not use the term now? this is a little surprising.