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The author of this seems like a real joy to work with > “TDD purists are just the worst. Their frail little minds can't process the existence of different work

by mlthoughts2018 6y ago

The author of this seems like a real joy to work with > “TDD purists are just the worst. Their frail little minds can't process the existence of different workflows.” Imagine thinking about colleagues as people with “frail little minds.” Yikes. Many of the other points betray serious attitude and perspective problems, but it was forgivable until getting to that last bullet and realizing, no, this is just a person with a shitty attitude.

deleted 6y ago
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coldtea 6y ago
>Imagine thinking about colleagues as people with “frail little minds.” Yikes. He's not thinking about ALL colleagues, but "TDD purists". And even so, it's obviously a turn of phrase to dismiss the hardcore purism, not something the author generally feels about such people in their entirety.
- mlthoughts2018 6y ago
  Absolutely not. Setting up a strawman “absolute purist” (and yes, this is a strawman - no, you haven’t worked with real people taking the extreme strawman TDD position that could magically justify this) and then using needlessly insulting or belittling language to condemn the fake strawman is totally ridiculous. Your attempted defense of it is not acceptable. You could just as easily say something like, “People who take TDD to an extreme are hard to work with and ultimately their inflexibility and unwillingness to appreciate other approaches does more harm than good.” See how that’s not dehumanizing? See how that accomplishes the same thing without disgusting juvenile insults like saying someone of a different ideology has a “frail little mind”?
  - coldtea 6y ago
    >and yes, this is a strawman - no, you haven’t worked with real people taking the extreme strawman TDD position that could magically justify this No strawman required. There are real devs with extreme TDD zealotry. It's very possible that the author has worked with such devs, and I see no reason to doubt his experience. Your use of the word "strawman" above, doesn't magically make such devs which push TDD with zealotry as some silver bullet solution not exist. The only reasonable reading of your point then is that those devs are not enough to justify the phrase "frail little minds". It would take some far more extreme, non-existent in the world, level of TDD zealotry (what you call a "strawman TDD position") to justify sthe use of a phrase. But that's just you setting an arbitrary criterium. Which neither the author, nor I share. I'm fine with using the term "frail little minds" for people with real-world levels of TDD zealotry. I furthermore understand that it's just a phrase used by the author to refer to devs that can't get over their (real world level) TDD zealotry, that it doesn't imply anything about them otherwise, and that it's not a big fucking deal. >See how that’s not dehumanizing? No, I fail to see how the authors turn of phrase was dehumanizing. I leave such characterization to actually dehumanizing things, for example racism.
    - t-writescode 6y ago
      I think this whole thread is an example of The Weak Man argument in action, it’s neat to see it in real life just after it was posted on HN.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        I think it's more about making mountains out of molehills and ignoring the context and substance of TFA.
    - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
      > “ I'm fine with using the term "frail little minds" for people with real-world levels of TDD zealotry.” This is disgusting behavior on your part. You should be ashamed. Even more so for the mental gymnastics you’ve written in this spastic and bizarre comment to defend and endorse using flippantly insulting language. The level of intellectual dishonesty in what you say is just staggering. Absolutely shambolic on your part.
      - coldtea 6y ago
        >This is disgusting behavior on your part. You should be ashamed. This is hollier than thou virtue signalling on your part. You should be shunned. Also, hypocritical. You're against "frail little minds" but are OK with yourself using "disgusting behavior" and "you should be ashamed", like some tv-evangelist... >Even more so for the mental gymnastics you’ve written in this spastic and bizarre comment to defend and endorse using flippantly insulting language. No mental gymanstics required. Devs are adults. The "ocassional flippantly insulting language" if fine and has been part of team work since forever. Not to mention TFA author didn't target anyone in particular, but a category of people with zealotic behavior. If you can't call out stupid ideas as stupid, and zealots as such, then we've regressed at childish levels of protection from the real world (which perhaps is all the rage in some rapidly infantilizing areas of the world, enabled early by helicopter parents).

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

coldtea 6y ago

>Imagine thinking about colleagues as people with “frail little minds.” Yikes. He's not thinking about ALL colleagues, but "TDD purists". And even so, it's obviously a turn of phrase to dismiss the hardcore purism, not something the author generally feels about such people in their entirety.

mlthoughts2018 6y ago
Absolutely not. Setting up a strawman “absolute purist” (and yes, this is a strawman - no, you haven’t worked with real people taking the extreme strawman TDD position that could magically justify this) and then using needlessly insulting or belittling language to condemn the fake strawman is totally ridiculous. Your attempted defense of it is not acceptable. You could just as easily say something like, “People who take TDD to an extreme are hard to work with and ultimately their inflexibility and unwillingness to appreciate other approaches does more harm than good.” See how that’s not dehumanizing? See how that accomplishes the same thing without disgusting juvenile insults like saying someone of a different ideology has a “frail little mind”?
- coldtea 6y ago
  >and yes, this is a strawman - no, you haven’t worked with real people taking the extreme strawman TDD position that could magically justify this No strawman required. There are real devs with extreme TDD zealotry. It's very possible that the author has worked with such devs, and I see no reason to doubt his experience. Your use of the word "strawman" above, doesn't magically make such devs which push TDD with zealotry as some silver bullet solution not exist. The only reasonable reading of your point then is that those devs are not enough to justify the phrase "frail little minds". It would take some far more extreme, non-existent in the world, level of TDD zealotry (what you call a "strawman TDD position") to justify sthe use of a phrase. But that's just you setting an arbitrary criterium. Which neither the author, nor I share. I'm fine with using the term "frail little minds" for people with real-world levels of TDD zealotry. I furthermore understand that it's just a phrase used by the author to refer to devs that can't get over their (real world level) TDD zealotry, that it doesn't imply anything about them otherwise, and that it's not a big fucking deal. >See how that’s not dehumanizing? No, I fail to see how the authors turn of phrase was dehumanizing. I leave such characterization to actually dehumanizing things, for example racism.
  - t-writescode 6y ago
    I think this whole thread is an example of The Weak Man argument in action, it’s neat to see it in real life just after it was posted on HN.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      I think it's more about making mountains out of molehills and ignoring the context and substance of TFA.
  - mlthoughts2018 6y ago
    > “ I'm fine with using the term "frail little minds" for people with real-world levels of TDD zealotry.” This is disgusting behavior on your part. You should be ashamed. Even more so for the mental gymnastics you’ve written in this spastic and bizarre comment to defend and endorse using flippantly insulting language. The level of intellectual dishonesty in what you say is just staggering. Absolutely shambolic on your part.
    - coldtea 6y ago
      >This is disgusting behavior on your part. You should be ashamed. This is hollier than thou virtue signalling on your part. You should be shunned. Also, hypocritical. You're against "frail little minds" but are OK with yourself using "disgusting behavior" and "you should be ashamed", like some tv-evangelist... >Even more so for the mental gymnastics you’ve written in this spastic and bizarre comment to defend and endorse using flippantly insulting language. No mental gymanstics required. Devs are adults. The "ocassional flippantly insulting language" if fine and has been part of team work since forever. Not to mention TFA author didn't target anyone in particular, but a category of people with zealotic behavior. If you can't call out stupid ideas as stupid, and zealots as such, then we've regressed at childish levels of protection from the real world (which perhaps is all the rage in some rapidly infantilizing areas of the world, enabled early by helicopter parents).