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Is that because WordPress is simple, though? There are similar CMSes you can use with e.g. Gatsby. They’re just a glorified build systems, after all — there’s n

Is that because WordPress is simple, though? There are similar CMSes you can use with e.g. Gatsby. They’re just a glorified build systems, after all — there’s nothing inherently complex about the content management experience. And on the flip side, it’s possible to load up WordPress with enough plugins that it becomes a nightmare to use. I think we see people choose WordPress because it’s familiar, popular, battle-tested and has a big community with a lot of plugins. It’s a good choice for a lot of people. But that doesn’t mean people picking other options are just taken in by the hype.

manigandham 6y ago
Yes because Wordpress includes frontend rendering (of both the actual pages and the backend admin) by default. This means you get working HTML powered by dynamic content out of the box, and it keeps working as content changes without needing constant builds for static sites. I see the benefits of modern component-driven frontend systems but I think the better opportunity would be to integrate this cleanly into existing server-side engines rather than try to recreate the backend entirely or disassemble it down to such low-level build steps.
- mmmeff 6y ago
  Like next.js?
- kristopolous 6y ago
  Wordpress also has a really rich ecosystem of mature and widely used plugins that are quite easy to install. The podcast ones for instance, they'll allow you to schedule the publishing of a new episode, then upload the episode to all the major platforms, format the images, titles and descriptions automatically for the different platforms, cross post to the social media accounts announcing the new episode, allow you to put in show notes for the blog, and embed a way to listen to the show on the site, all built in, for free, using an interface that is clean and well documented. Of course I could do that myself but come on now, that simplifies my life so much. I'm ok with my government saving money and not hiring six figure tech workers to custom roll effectively a press release website. Honestly, they could redirect it to a medium blog and save on the hosting fees as well. The real infrastructure is going to be at the departments, NASA, Smithsonian, CDC etc...
  - dannyw 6y ago
    Governments should moderately prefer self-hosted solutions to cloud services, especially when a president just got banned from all social media platforms.
    - jakelazaroff 6y ago
      The SolarWinds hack is another cautionary tale about not self-hosting.
      - OccamsMirror 6y ago
        Not really. What guarantee do you have that your cloud hosting provider wasn't also running SolarWinds services behind their firewalls.
        jakelazaroff 6y ago
        "Self-hosting" in this case means running your own data center as well.
    - kristopolous 6y ago
      Great example. All of Trump's tweets are preserved at the National Archive, the department entrusted with doing that. https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-national-archive-tweets-1563149 https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-national-archive-tweet... All of the concerns are handled by robust existing infrastructure. That's the point. That ultimately the website backend doesn't matter, our intuitive logic and apprehensions about this stuff simply doesn't apply Let's take an extreme example, pretend they use GoDaddy as their registrar and someone falls for a phishing email hijacking the domain. The Whitehouse not only could probably seize it back with a single phone call but also get the right people on the phone to stop the DNS record propagation at the root servers as well. It's kinda like how the police keep their cars running when they're parked and nowhere around. They don't have to worry the same way you and I do about someone smashing the window and driving off, the infrastructural support for their vehicle is vastly different. Or how the president doesn't have to worry about when to leave for somewhere to beat traffic because the police literally clears the road the president is currently traveling on of all vehicles like Moses parting the sea. It's a completely different kind of logic
chiefalchemist 6y ago
Gatsby isn't a CMS in the WP or Drupal sense of the word. Gatsby to me is more of an "integration first" minded architecture. That is, Gatsby is a way to unite multiple services, CMS's and content sources. But other than using .MD files Gatsby doesn't really have the ability to manage content in a true CMS sense. It's not like you log into some Gatsby admin panel and add content.
earthboundkid 6y ago
Wordpress makes sense if the goals are: - Big upfront design - Leverage existing plugins to minimize new development - Use managed hosting - Hand off to non-technical or semi-technical people and spin down development to just occasional contract work If you actually have a FTE developer, it doesn’t fit as well at all. Among other problems, it does not work with a git centric development flow, which any modern dev will insist on.
- arcturus17 6y ago
  Eh, the efficiencies you describe happen regardless of whether the dev team is full-time or outsourced, and I think there are ways of doing git flows with WP.
- marc_io 6y ago
  > it does not work with a git centric development flow, which any modern dev will insist on. Yes, it does. Just use Trellis and Bedrock.
  - earthboundkid 6y ago
    I am not familiar with them, but a quick Google seems to suggest they won’t work with WPEngine, Wordpress.com, etc. In any event, they’re bolt on solutions, but the core of Wordpress is still a mess of configuration split between files on disk and the database. There is nothing so valuable about Wordpress that you couldn’t just get a more reliable solution from scratch than by bolting more stuff onto WP. I’ve heard people say “oh, our users are already trained on WP, so it’s a good CMS” but I don’t buy that at all. I’ve had users praise my homegrown CMSes before. There’s not much difficulty in pairing a WYSIWYG text editor and some form fields with modern web stacks these days.
    - seanwilson 6y ago
      > “oh, our users are already trained on WP, so it’s a good CMS” but I don’t buy that at all. I’ve had users praise my homegrown CMSes before. There’s not much difficulty in pairing a WYSIWYG text editor and some form fields with modern web stacks these days. I don't think even the admin UI is well organised or consistent though. Most users just know how to create and edit posts. Once you start installing a few required plugins too, the UI becomes even more a mess of controls that users are scared to touch.

manigandham 6y ago

Yes because Wordpress includes frontend rendering (of both the actual pages and the backend admin) by default. This means you get working HTML powered by dynamic content out of the box, and it keeps working as content changes without needing constant builds for static sites. I see the benefits of modern component-driven frontend systems but I think the better opportunity would be to integrate this cleanly into existing server-side engines rather than try to recreate the backend entirely or disassemble it down to such low-level build steps.

mmmeff 6y ago
Like next.js?
kristopolous 6y ago
Wordpress also has a really rich ecosystem of mature and widely used plugins that are quite easy to install. The podcast ones for instance, they'll allow you to schedule the publishing of a new episode, then upload the episode to all the major platforms, format the images, titles and descriptions automatically for the different platforms, cross post to the social media accounts announcing the new episode, allow you to put in show notes for the blog, and embed a way to listen to the show on the site, all built in, for free, using an interface that is clean and well documented. Of course I could do that myself but come on now, that simplifies my life so much. I'm ok with my government saving money and not hiring six figure tech workers to custom roll effectively a press release website. Honestly, they could redirect it to a medium blog and save on the hosting fees as well. The real infrastructure is going to be at the departments, NASA, Smithsonian, CDC etc...
- dannyw 6y ago
  Governments should moderately prefer self-hosted solutions to cloud services, especially when a president just got banned from all social media platforms.
  - jakelazaroff 6y ago
    The SolarWinds hack is another cautionary tale about not self-hosting.
    - OccamsMirror 6y ago
      Not really. What guarantee do you have that your cloud hosting provider wasn't also running SolarWinds services behind their firewalls.
      - jakelazaroff 6y ago
        "Self-hosting" in this case means running your own data center as well.
  - kristopolous 6y ago
    Great example. All of Trump's tweets are preserved at the National Archive, the department entrusted with doing that. https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-national-archive-tweets-1563149 https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-national-archive-tweet... All of the concerns are handled by robust existing infrastructure. That's the point. That ultimately the website backend doesn't matter, our intuitive logic and apprehensions about this stuff simply doesn't apply Let's take an extreme example, pretend they use GoDaddy as their registrar and someone falls for a phishing email hijacking the domain. The Whitehouse not only could probably seize it back with a single phone call but also get the right people on the phone to stop the DNS record propagation at the root servers as well. It's kinda like how the police keep their cars running when they're parked and nowhere around. They don't have to worry the same way you and I do about someone smashing the window and driving off, the infrastructural support for their vehicle is vastly different. Or how the president doesn't have to worry about when to leave for somewhere to beat traffic because the police literally clears the road the president is currently traveling on of all vehicles like Moses parting the sea. It's a completely different kind of logic

chiefalchemist 6y ago

Gatsby isn't a CMS in the WP or Drupal sense of the word. Gatsby to me is more of an "integration first" minded architecture. That is, Gatsby is a way to unite multiple services, CMS's and content sources. But other than using .MD files Gatsby doesn't really have the ability to manage content in a true CMS sense. It's not like you log into some Gatsby admin panel and add content.

earthboundkid 6y ago

Wordpress makes sense if the goals are: - Big upfront design - Leverage existing plugins to minimize new development - Use managed hosting - Hand off to non-technical or semi-technical people and spin down development to just occasional contract work If you actually have a FTE developer, it doesn’t fit as well at all. Among other problems, it does not work with a git centric development flow, which any modern dev will insist on.

arcturus17 6y ago
Eh, the efficiencies you describe happen regardless of whether the dev team is full-time or outsourced, and I think there are ways of doing git flows with WP.
marc_io 6y ago
> it does not work with a git centric development flow, which any modern dev will insist on. Yes, it does. Just use Trellis and Bedrock.
- earthboundkid 6y ago
  I am not familiar with them, but a quick Google seems to suggest they won’t work with WPEngine, Wordpress.com, etc. In any event, they’re bolt on solutions, but the core of Wordpress is still a mess of configuration split between files on disk and the database. There is nothing so valuable about Wordpress that you couldn’t just get a more reliable solution from scratch than by bolting more stuff onto WP. I’ve heard people say “oh, our users are already trained on WP, so it’s a good CMS” but I don’t buy that at all. I’ve had users praise my homegrown CMSes before. There’s not much difficulty in pairing a WYSIWYG text editor and some form fields with modern web stacks these days.
  - seanwilson 6y ago
    > “oh, our users are already trained on WP, so it’s a good CMS” but I don’t buy that at all. I’ve had users praise my homegrown CMSes before. There’s not much difficulty in pairing a WYSIWYG text editor and some form fields with modern web stacks these days. I don't think even the admin UI is well organised or consistent though. Most users just know how to create and edit posts. Once you start installing a few required plugins too, the UI becomes even more a mess of controls that users are scared to touch.