4 ms·

If you are from EU take it easy at 27:25, I’m sure there’s no data about what he’s talking about.

by tuxone 6y ago

williamdclt 6y ago
Yeah, I was going to react to that. I'm not from Italy or Spain but definitely could be in "so forth", I found that somewhat offensive. Especially coming from an American policeman, where police brutality is no small problem... I found him a good advocate of "don't talk to police", a lot of things he describes as standard police practice I would have hoped are illegal, and probably are in some EU countries (police can lie in interview??)
- atlih 6y ago
  Just because there's a lot of news of US police brutality and little or no news from [insert country]'s police brutality, that data point could just as well mean that the news are more robust in the US than that there's less of it in other countries.
  - seamyb88 6y ago
    There are some pretty poor attempts to justify it, but "it's not that our police are bad, it's that our News is brilliant" has to be up there.
    - konjin 6y ago
      The US isn't better or worse than Europe, it's different. Having lived in both the hypocrisy of Europeans when it comes to police brutality to gypsies is astonishing, doubly so since I'm half gypsy but white enough to get a free pass and get told how bad 'they' are.
      - stretchcat 6y ago
        Usually it's around this time that some European chimes in with some bullshit about how it's not racism when it's against gypsies. Hopefully this time they spare us.
        konjin 6y ago
        Again Americans aren't any better. My blond grandmother was in a camp because she was a slav but somehow racism against white people doesn't exist. Both are equally stupid, but in different ways
      - username90 6y ago
        How many gypsies gets killed per year by police in Europe? Compare that to how many people police kills in USA? There is pretty hard data that European police is drastically less violent overall. It is possible that European police is more racist than US police, yes, but that wasn't what we were talking about. I'm pretty sure that US police is more violent against white people than European police is against gypsies, meaning that even with the racism European police is still much better.
  - newacct583 6y ago
    Largely true. It's not that the US police are less abusive per officer or per interaction, it's more than the US does way too much policing.
    - bzbarsky 6y ago
      How are you defining "way too much policing"? Just looking at Western Europe (arbitrarily defined, granted, and leaving out some really small countries) in the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen..., the US has fewer police per capita than (in increasing per-capita order) Ireland, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria, Scotland, Belgium, Germany, France, Portugal, Italy, Spain. More police than (in decreasing per-capita order) England+Wales, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Norway. The US has about 25% more police per capita than Norway. Germany has 63% more police per capita than the US does.
      - dubbel 6y ago
        That 63% number for Germany fits very well with the fact that police in Germany it's always patrolling in groups of at least 3. I could imagine that that lessens the pressure on any single officer. In the US, if you are overwhelmed, you might be done, while in Germany there is always another officer ready to help. In case of vehicle stops, one officer can interact with the driver comparatively relaxed, which helps to deescalate, while the second officer is covering their colleague. That is not to say that we don't have problems with police brutality or cover-ups here, they are just less deadly usually.
  - williamdclt 6y ago
    34.8 people murdered by the police per 10 million residents in the US, versus 3.8 in France, 1.3 in Germany and 0.5 in the UK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc...). It's pretty weak evidence, as the officer in the video is talking about violence during interview, not about killing civilians and I'll agree that these are different things. But it's more than enough to make me skeptical that you should be grateful that you're being interrogated by an american officer rather than an european one... Very anecdotally, I've watched/read a lot of american news during the elections and the idea that they are "more robust" or more impartial than european news makes me chuckle (at least western europe as it's what I know, and not pretending that our journalism is laudable either)
- JohnBooty 6y ago
  Oh yeah. They're allowed to say pretty much anything they want. One basic interrogation technique involves lying to you about what you're suspected of. The interrogator might accuse you of something they KNOW you didn't do. He then notes your reaction.... typically you will be outraged and confused. Later when he accuses you of other crimes, he studies your reaction and compares it to the earlier reaction. He already knows what you look like when you truthfully deny a crime. Is your denial different this time? Yes? Then that gives him a hint that his current accusation might be accurate.
refurb 6y ago
Yeah. I’d rather take the word of a random HN’er versus some guy who has actually worked with those European police forces.
- username90 6y ago
  I'd need a real study and not just a quote from a US police officer to believe that the US police is less violent than southern European police. There is so much statistics that they are more violent already, he need evidence to back that up.
  - refurb 6y ago
    He didn’t say European police were more violent (in general). He said they are more violent during interrogations.
- williamdclt 6y ago
  Nobody asks to take the word of a random HN'er, just to suspend our judgment. This officer _coult_ be right, but I'd need data to believe it

If you are from EU take it easy at 27:25, I’m sure there’s no data about what he’s talking about.

by tuxone 6y ago

If you are from EU take it easy at 27:25, I’m sure there’s no data about what he’s talking about.

Yeah, I was going to react to that. I'm not from Italy or Spain but definitely could be in "so forth", I found that somewhat offensive. Especially coming from an American policeman, where police brutality is no small problem... I found him a good advocate of "don't talk to police", a lot of things he describes as standard police practice I would have hoped are illegal, and probably are in some EU countries (police can lie in interview??)

atlih 6y ago
Just because there's a lot of news of US police brutality and little or no news from [insert country]'s police brutality, that data point could just as well mean that the news are more robust in the US than that there's less of it in other countries.
- seamyb88 6y ago
  There are some pretty poor attempts to justify it, but "it's not that our police are bad, it's that our News is brilliant" has to be up there.
  - konjin 6y ago
    The US isn't better or worse than Europe, it's different. Having lived in both the hypocrisy of Europeans when it comes to police brutality to gypsies is astonishing, doubly so since I'm half gypsy but white enough to get a free pass and get told how bad 'they' are.
    - stretchcat 6y ago
      Usually it's around this time that some European chimes in with some bullshit about how it's not racism when it's against gypsies. Hopefully this time they spare us.
      - konjin 6y ago
        Again Americans aren't any better. My blond grandmother was in a camp because she was a slav but somehow racism against white people doesn't exist. Both are equally stupid, but in different ways
    - username90 6y ago
      How many gypsies gets killed per year by police in Europe? Compare that to how many people police kills in USA? There is pretty hard data that European police is drastically less violent overall. It is possible that European police is more racist than US police, yes, but that wasn't what we were talking about. I'm pretty sure that US police is more violent against white people than European police is against gypsies, meaning that even with the racism European police is still much better.
- newacct583 6y ago
  Largely true. It's not that the US police are less abusive per officer or per interaction, it's more than the US does way too much policing.
  - bzbarsky 6y ago
    How are you defining "way too much policing"? Just looking at Western Europe (arbitrarily defined, granted, and leaving out some really small countries) in the list at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_by_number_of_police_officers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependen..., the US has fewer police per capita than (in increasing per-capita order) Ireland, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Austria, Scotland, Belgium, Germany, France, Portugal, Italy, Spain. More police than (in decreasing per-capita order) England+Wales, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Norway. The US has about 25% more police per capita than Norway. Germany has 63% more police per capita than the US does.
    - dubbel 6y ago
      That 63% number for Germany fits very well with the fact that police in Germany it's always patrolling in groups of at least 3. I could imagine that that lessens the pressure on any single officer. In the US, if you are overwhelmed, you might be done, while in Germany there is always another officer ready to help. In case of vehicle stops, one officer can interact with the driver comparatively relaxed, which helps to deescalate, while the second officer is covering their colleague. That is not to say that we don't have problems with police brutality or cover-ups here, they are just less deadly usually.
- williamdclt 6y ago
  34.8 people murdered by the police per 10 million residents in the US, versus 3.8 in France, 1.3 in Germany and 0.5 in the UK (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforc...). It's pretty weak evidence, as the officer in the video is talking about violence during interview, not about killing civilians and I'll agree that these are different things. But it's more than enough to make me skeptical that you should be grateful that you're being interrogated by an american officer rather than an european one... Very anecdotally, I've watched/read a lot of american news during the elections and the idea that they are "more robust" or more impartial than european news makes me chuckle (at least western europe as it's what I know, and not pretending that our journalism is laudable either)
JohnBooty 6y ago
Oh yeah. They're allowed to say pretty much anything they want. One basic interrogation technique involves lying to you about what you're suspected of. The interrogator might accuse you of something they KNOW you didn't do. He then notes your reaction.... typically you will be outraged and confused. Later when he accuses you of other crimes, he studies your reaction and compares it to the earlier reaction. He already knows what you look like when you truthfully deny a crime. Is your denial different this time? Yes? Then that gives him a hint that his current accusation might be accurate.

refurb 6y ago

Yeah. I’d rather take the word of a random HN’er versus some guy who has actually worked with those European police forces.

username90 6y ago
I'd need a real study and not just a quote from a US police officer to believe that the US police is less violent than southern European police. There is so much statistics that they are more violent already, he need evidence to back that up.
- refurb 6y ago
  He didn’t say European police were more violent (in general). He said they are more violent during interrogations.
williamdclt 6y ago
Nobody asks to take the word of a random HN'er, just to suspend our judgment. This officer _coult_ be right, but I'd need data to believe it