6 ms·

Same headline could have been in America a few weeks ago. "Internet disrupted in United States amid opposition protests" Except private companies disrupted the

Same headline could have been in America a few weeks ago. "Internet disrupted in United States amid opposition protests" Except private companies disrupted the internet over central governments.

mhh__ 6y ago
By that same logic every single act of moderation is disrupting the internet?
- trentnix 6y ago
  If it moderates the same political speech simultaneously across multiple, supposedly "independent" networks, then yeah.
  - uniformlyrandom 6y ago
    This is Hacker News, not Facebook. Arguably, the internet ends at the network level (TCP). Everything above it is just the payload. Application layer disruptions are not internet disruptions.
    - trentnix 6y ago
      That's just a different weapon that can be aimed at the same enemy.
      - uniformlyrandom 6y ago
        Yes, but application layer "weapons" are very democratic. Everyone can have one.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    What is "it"? If you punched the mayor in a bar would you be surprised all the local establishments kick you out as well?
    - trentnix 6y ago
      Well I guess that depends. Is the mayor a “Nazi”? Because they decided that was okay a few years back before they started calling everyone they don’t like a “Nazi”.
      - mhh__ 6y ago
        If I'm being honest I don't contest that the word nazi is being thrown around too much, but if Donald Trump isn't (even accidently, I don't believe he could formulate a view himself) a fascist I don't know who is - economic protectionist, social conservative, consistently praises "strong" leaders e.g. Putin and Kim, has been caught on tape trying to illegally override a democratic result in Georgia, the list goes on and on and these are excluding the more blatant offenses during 2015
        trentnix 6y ago
        How about people who scheme to deny the speech of others? That’s pretty fascist.
- ducktective 6y ago
  aah...by that logic, "de-platforming" (newspeak for censoring) is moderation.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - zepto 6y ago
    That’s exactly what people claim it is.
    - ducktective 6y ago
      This was implied by my post...
      - zepto 6y ago
        Typically when I see people use the phrase ‘by that logic’, it is used to suggest that someone’s logic produces an absurd or unintended consequence, which if examined might lead to a reevaluation of the logic itself.
uniformlyrandom 6y ago
That was very different kind of disruption though, wasn't it?
- Helloworldboy 6y ago
  No
dTal 6y ago
Some differences: web services != internet: Nobody was pulling a lever and blanket shutting down WhatsApp. government != private: You touch on this, but it' a significant difference that there was no abuse of political power at play; you simply had independent entities coming to the same conclusion, and acting within their rights. tactical != strategic: The revocation of service by various American web services was not time sensitive, calculated to disrupt an ongoing protest; it was a refusal to continue providing service after the heat had died down.
- Udik 6y ago
  > Nobody was pulling a lever and blanket shutting down WhatsApp You don't need to if you can intervene at the specific application and user level. Which is what happened with Twitter and Facebook, Youtube and Parler. > there was no abuse of political power at play; you simply had independent entities Which happen to be companies from the same nation, after the political entity their actions are directed against has lost the elections and is well on its way out and its opponents are coming in. Russia doesn't have the luxury of having its own Facebook and Youtube. > The revocation of service by various American web services was not time sensitive, calculated to disrupt an ongoing protest; Yet it was motivated with the danger of further incitements- which means that the heat had not died down at all- the actions were explicitly aimed at preventing more protest.
IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago
"Internet disrupted in US amid protests except the internet works fine and its just a few accounts being banned from social media and its not protest but a violent mob intend on publicly executing members of parliament and its not the opposition because the current president send them" (... not sure if the headline fits any style guide)

Same headline could have been in America a few weeks ago. "Internet disrupted in United States amid opposition protests" Except private companies disrupted the internet over central governments.

mhh__ 6y ago

By that same logic every single act of moderation is disrupting the internet?

trentnix 6y ago
If it moderates the same political speech simultaneously across multiple, supposedly "independent" networks, then yeah.
- uniformlyrandom 6y ago
  This is Hacker News, not Facebook. Arguably, the internet ends at the network level (TCP). Everything above it is just the payload. Application layer disruptions are not internet disruptions.
  - trentnix 6y ago
    That's just a different weapon that can be aimed at the same enemy.
    - uniformlyrandom 6y ago
      Yes, but application layer "weapons" are very democratic. Everyone can have one.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  What is "it"? If you punched the mayor in a bar would you be surprised all the local establishments kick you out as well?
  - trentnix 6y ago
    Well I guess that depends. Is the mayor a “Nazi”? Because they decided that was okay a few years back before they started calling everyone they don’t like a “Nazi”.
    - mhh__ 6y ago
      If I'm being honest I don't contest that the word nazi is being thrown around too much, but if Donald Trump isn't (even accidently, I don't believe he could formulate a view himself) a fascist I don't know who is - economic protectionist, social conservative, consistently praises "strong" leaders e.g. Putin and Kim, has been caught on tape trying to illegally override a democratic result in Georgia, the list goes on and on and these are excluding the more blatant offenses during 2015
      - trentnix 6y ago
        How about people who scheme to deny the speech of others? That’s pretty fascist.
ducktective 6y ago
aah...by that logic, "de-platforming" (newspeak for censoring) is moderation.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- zepto 6y ago
  That’s exactly what people claim it is.
  - ducktective 6y ago
    This was implied by my post...
    - zepto 6y ago
      Typically when I see people use the phrase ‘by that logic’, it is used to suggest that someone’s logic produces an absurd or unintended consequence, which if examined might lead to a reevaluation of the logic itself.

uniformlyrandom 6y ago

That was very different kind of disruption though, wasn't it?

Helloworldboy 6y ago
No

dTal 6y ago

Some differences: web services != internet: Nobody was pulling a lever and blanket shutting down WhatsApp. government != private: You touch on this, but it' a significant difference that there was no abuse of political power at play; you simply had independent entities coming to the same conclusion, and acting within their rights. tactical != strategic: The revocation of service by various American web services was not time sensitive, calculated to disrupt an ongoing protest; it was a refusal to continue providing service after the heat had died down.

Udik 6y ago
> Nobody was pulling a lever and blanket shutting down WhatsApp You don't need to if you can intervene at the specific application and user level. Which is what happened with Twitter and Facebook, Youtube and Parler. > there was no abuse of political power at play; you simply had independent entities Which happen to be companies from the same nation, after the political entity their actions are directed against has lost the elections and is well on its way out and its opponents are coming in. Russia doesn't have the luxury of having its own Facebook and Youtube. > The revocation of service by various American web services was not time sensitive, calculated to disrupt an ongoing protest; Yet it was motivated with the danger of further incitements- which means that the heat had not died down at all- the actions were explicitly aimed at preventing more protest.

IfOnlyYouKnew 6y ago

"Internet disrupted in US amid protests except the internet works fine and its just a few accounts being banned from social media and its not protest but a violent mob intend on publicly executing members of parliament and its not the opposition because the current president send them" (... not sure if the headline fits any style guide)