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There's another aide of this coin which is also important. There's that whole urbanism movement which is all about making our town and cities more suited to hum

There's another aide of this coin which is also important. There's that whole urbanism movement which is all about making our town and cities more suited to humans. Making the streets more walkable, reducing traffic, increasing bike infrastructure, increasing green spaces. These are all things that people have the right to request in a big city because it makes living there better for everyone.

bobthepanda 6y ago
And where does the freight in a big city come from? It doesn't just teleport in. Freight trains are probably the least bad way for freight to enter a city, given their efficiency and relative greenness. But they do need to be unloaded, maintained, and turned around somewhere, and wherever that is going to happen is going to be noisy.
- dbspin 6y ago
  This is an argument against zoning residential properties near freight yards, airports etc. Not a criticism of making cities more livable. No one should have to tolerate that level of noise pollution. It's actively hazardous to mental health.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    One could also do due diligence when looking for residential property to live in. The neighborhood in question has 1 bedrooms starting at $2.6k a month, even after COVID depressed rental prices. People are by no means being forced to live there because they have no place left to go.
  - xvedejas 6y ago
    Well, because of NIMBYism, most US cities can only legally build urban housing in industrial or formerly industrial areas that lack mobilized neighborhood associations. So we're going in the opposite direction, thanks in part to zoning.
- jrockway 6y ago
  I don't know the details of this story, but we don't have many freight trains in New York City. It's an island, and the nearest rail bridge to the mainland is upstate (280 mile detour!). There is some car float traffic to Brooklyn, there is an occasional freight train in the Bronx near the Metro North tracks, but in general, it's not really a thing in NYC. I am guessing this particular incident concerns the LIRR's coach yard in the aptly-named neighborhood of Hudson Yards, or NJT/Amtrak's yard in Sunnyside. Either way, it doesn't have much to do about bringing goods into the cities. This is instead a good-old commuters-versus-residents thing.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    There is an NY&A freight facility for trash loading in LIC. It was part of the Bloomberg administration's push to stop landfilling trash locally and take it out of the city in an environmentally friendly way.
- polishdude20 6y ago
  Oh I'm not arguing against the idea of doing your due diligence before you move in and the fact that freight is very important. I'm more arguing against the feeling that you don't get to complain or try and make the city a better place to live in when you move there.
  - bobthepanda 6y ago
    "better" is subjective and looking at one lens like noise in isolation is faulty. California stopped having prescribed bans as frequently because they would violate air quality rules and now they have wildfires so intense they need to evacuate heavily populated areas every year. Complaining about freight noise from trains would be a net negative if what you replaced it with was an equivalent amount of trucks, which are far worse for urbanism.

bobthepanda 6y ago

And where does the freight in a big city come from? It doesn't just teleport in. Freight trains are probably the least bad way for freight to enter a city, given their efficiency and relative greenness. But they do need to be unloaded, maintained, and turned around somewhere, and wherever that is going to happen is going to be noisy.

dbspin 6y ago
This is an argument against zoning residential properties near freight yards, airports etc. Not a criticism of making cities more livable. No one should have to tolerate that level of noise pollution. It's actively hazardous to mental health.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  One could also do due diligence when looking for residential property to live in. The neighborhood in question has 1 bedrooms starting at $2.6k a month, even after COVID depressed rental prices. People are by no means being forced to live there because they have no place left to go.
- xvedejas 6y ago
  Well, because of NIMBYism, most US cities can only legally build urban housing in industrial or formerly industrial areas that lack mobilized neighborhood associations. So we're going in the opposite direction, thanks in part to zoning.
jrockway 6y ago
I don't know the details of this story, but we don't have many freight trains in New York City. It's an island, and the nearest rail bridge to the mainland is upstate (280 mile detour!). There is some car float traffic to Brooklyn, there is an occasional freight train in the Bronx near the Metro North tracks, but in general, it's not really a thing in NYC. I am guessing this particular incident concerns the LIRR's coach yard in the aptly-named neighborhood of Hudson Yards, or NJT/Amtrak's yard in Sunnyside. Either way, it doesn't have much to do about bringing goods into the cities. This is instead a good-old commuters-versus-residents thing.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  There is an NY&A freight facility for trash loading in LIC. It was part of the Bloomberg administration's push to stop landfilling trash locally and take it out of the city in an environmentally friendly way.
polishdude20 6y ago
Oh I'm not arguing against the idea of doing your due diligence before you move in and the fact that freight is very important. I'm more arguing against the feeling that you don't get to complain or try and make the city a better place to live in when you move there.
- bobthepanda 6y ago
  "better" is subjective and looking at one lens like noise in isolation is faulty. California stopped having prescribed bans as frequently because they would violate air quality rules and now they have wildfires so intense they need to evacuate heavily populated areas every year. Complaining about freight noise from trains would be a net negative if what you replaced it with was an equivalent amount of trucks, which are far worse for urbanism.