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He may not necessarily say that owning former state assets is good or evil, but that the perception of entrepreneurs has been tainted by the mafia that took ove

by iwwr 15y ago

He may not necessarily say that owning former state assets is good or evil, but that the perception of entrepreneurs has been tainted by the mafia that took over right after the Soviet collapse. So, stories like these don't evoke the empathy and outrage that are required.

woobar 15y ago
This is perfect point which I agree with completely. What I don't agree with is OP's blanket statements like 'privatization is theft'. So far the only argument to support his views were his childhood memories.
- asciilifeform 15y ago
  I could cite a wealth of literature describing what Soviet life was actually like for people other than dissident whiners. But it would be a waste of time, because 1) it would persuade no one - everyone here appears to have read-only minds on the subject and 2) most of it has never and will never be translated to English.
  - woobar 15y ago
    Please, share your best sources. Russian is my native language. I lived in USSR (Central Russia and Far East, Ukraine, Georgia). My children were born in Russia. Don't mind if I take your literature with a grain of salt though. PS: And I know for a fact that it was not possible to "get high-quality milk and cheese into peoples' stomachs without American notions of "profit"" in USSR for any reasonable period of time.
- pbz 15y ago
  Privatization in theory is not theft, the same way communism sounds great on paper. In practice, however, when you're dealing with the level of corruption that was / is present in former communist countries, you can pretty much assume that every privatization involved theft. For somebody who lived through the process is as obvious as saying the US government is influenced by corporations.
SwellJoe 15y ago
the perception of entrepreneurs has been tainted by the mafia that took over right after the Soviet collapse If that were all he was saying, I wouldn't be arguing with him. I think Russia is a mess right now, and a lot of it has to do with the mafia and former KGB running things. But, that's nowhere near all he's saying...that was just the tip of the iceberg.

by iwwr 15y ago

woobar 15y ago

This is perfect point which I agree with completely. What I don't agree with is OP's blanket statements like 'privatization is theft'. So far the only argument to support his views were his childhood memories.

asciilifeform 15y ago
I could cite a wealth of literature describing what Soviet life was actually like for people other than dissident whiners. But it would be a waste of time, because 1) it would persuade no one - everyone here appears to have read-only minds on the subject and 2) most of it has never and will never be translated to English.
- woobar 15y ago
  Please, share your best sources. Russian is my native language. I lived in USSR (Central Russia and Far East, Ukraine, Georgia). My children were born in Russia. Don't mind if I take your literature with a grain of salt though. PS: And I know for a fact that it was not possible to "get high-quality milk and cheese into peoples' stomachs without American notions of "profit"" in USSR for any reasonable period of time.
pbz 15y ago
Privatization in theory is not theft, the same way communism sounds great on paper. In practice, however, when you're dealing with the level of corruption that was / is present in former communist countries, you can pretty much assume that every privatization involved theft. For somebody who lived through the process is as obvious as saying the US government is influenced by corporations.

SwellJoe 15y ago

the perception of entrepreneurs has been tainted by the mafia that took over right after the Soviet collapse If that were all he was saying, I wouldn't be arguing with him. I think Russia is a mess right now, and a lot of it has to do with the mafia and former KGB running things. But, that's nowhere near all he's saying...that was just the tip of the iceberg.