4 ms·

Chinese app stores take a 50% cut on every sales and transactions. To publish in China you need to get a deal with a local publisher/company which takes another

by hubadu 6y ago

Chinese app stores take a 50% cut on every sales and transactions. To publish in China you need to get a deal with a local publisher/company which takes another 70% cut of the remaining 50% (before taxes). Plus the long and heavy administrative paperwork to get a game approved by the authorities. Meanwhile chinese game companies can sell their games on western and asian markets without any restriction whatsoever. There is no reciprocity with China on the game market.

pototo666 6y ago
> Plus the long and heavy administrative paperwork to get a game approved by the authorities. True. I am a game developer in China. I can't afford those paperwork, both in terms of money and energy. I intend to publish my game in Western countries. > There is no reciprocity with China on the game market. True. Besides, china also has cheap labour in gaming industry, where employees are expected to work many hours.
- __m 6y ago
  Are you a westerner, or does the paperwork also apply to Chinese developers?
  - alisonatwork 6y ago
    It apply also to Chinese developers. There is a good article about this from a few years ago: https://egmnow.com/the-closing-walls-around-chinas-independent-game-development-scene/ https://egmnow.com/the-closing-walls-around-chinas-independe... I am guessing things did not change much since then.
  - karmasimida 6y ago
    It applies to all. It baffles me sometimes that while gaming industry is booming, create massive opportunities and tax revenue, and it is no way threatening the communist ideology, the government still treats it like a step child, shitting on it whenever it can.
    - justicezyx 6y ago
      Because the CCP does have a moral obligation to nurture the youth, you can label the motive to whatever you want, but addiction to video games are obviously bad for health and wasting a lot of time such that the school work would be affected. Not mentioning the gaming ideology is naturally free and liberalism oriented. There were patriotic games commissioned by government, and have been very awkward. Totalitarian nation's government generally tolerate very little about ideologically different median or mass influence tools.
    - powerapple 6y ago
      I have to say, game is no longer games any more. For console and PC games, it may stay the same as before, (although the freemium is popular as well). Many mobile games, and casual games is about take as much as your time and money as possible through data science. It is pure evil. I bought a switch for my son, but I try to keep him away from mobile games, especially those advertise in apps.
    - snoshy 6y ago
      To be fair, gaming as a consumer is not an inherently productive activity. The production of games, sure, but the tax of the creation is heavily distributed across the consuming population. If what you care about is to have your population be as productive as possible, you want to produce just enough of these entertainment avenues domestically as would be sustainable and not leading to large scale distraction, while still mainly exporting the product that has no such restraints. I think that's actually the challenge at hand for China, and it's not unique to the country. Korea, Japan, and many others face the same issues while having different tools to deal with the phenomenon.
    - em500 6y ago
      Most governments in the world, including most western ones, have a long history of regulations and legal restrictions on gambling. Maybe the Chinese are ahead of the curve in recognizing the similarities in the video game industry.
    - pototo666 6y ago
      At least following factors are considered: - Old Parents hate game. And old parents usually control the policy making and media. - Rent Seeking. As many policies in China, no clear rule in terms of game regulation. You want to pass it? Money helps. Those who make such rules don't care about taxes loses. Different department, different incentives.
  - pototo666 6y ago
    I am Chinese. Chinese gaming industry is f*cked hard by these paperworks. It kills many studios and jobs.
  - yorwba 6y ago
    Thst is a very good question, and as others have said, the answer is yes. It's also a question you should ask whenever someone demands "reciprocity" by banning Chinese company X from Western markets because Western company Y is banned from China. If you ask "if Y were a Chinese company, would they be banned, too?" the answer is usually yes. Google Search and Facebook aren't banned because of where they're from, but because of what they do, i.e. offering access to information the Chinese government wants censored. A Chinese company offering access to censored information would be shut down long before they got big enough to make international news. There's no need for "reciprocity" by putting more severe restrictions on Chinese companies. Applying the same rules to everyone would be enough. (Requiring all companies listed on US stock exchanges to be audited by the SEC is an example of a step in that direction.)
b0rsuk 6y ago
>There is no reciprocity with China on the game market. There is no single word for reciprocity in Chinese. You can make do with phrases like "mutual benefit".
- solstice 6y ago
  I think that you're wrong specifically and in what seems like an uncharitable insinuation about China. 对等 duì deng: equal status/treatment, parity (under the law), equity, reciprocity 在对等的基础上 Zài duì děng de jīchǔ shàng on the basis of reciprocity; on a reciprocal basis Source: plecodict
- rfoo 6y ago
  This is definitely false. Could you help shedding light on how this myth spreads? Like, where did you read about this myth? I have seen it mentioned on HN/Reddit multiple times and can't find the source.
hertzrat 6y ago
Is steam available in China? If not, what platforms do people use? Do you really only get about 15% of the sale price before taxes? I’m making a game of my own and am just curious for the future
- meibo 6y ago
  Steam is available in China, but it's a separate "instance" ran independently of worldwide Steam with a curated list of AAA games, so without the abundance of content and freedom to publish for everyone. Generally if you want to publish in China I'd say either "don't" and just release a Chinese localization in global stores, if you think that you will have a target audience in China, or find a huge publisher that will help you out.
  - rfoo 6y ago
    > Steam is available in China, but it's a separate "instance" Not yet. Despite various sources saying it is "near", the separate "instance" has not been up for now. The main Steam store works in China for the past few years, and it's what everyone uses. Yes, I mean I can buy a copy of Devotion on Steam with Alipay (or Wechat Pay) + RMB, download and play it without messing with anything. I have no idea why it hasn't been banned though. The Steam Community pages did get GFW-ed, just as every other sites hosting UGC without censorship[1]. [1]: If it is not, it's usually just a "Five demands not one less" away from being banned. Even scratch.mit.edu.

by hubadu 6y ago

pototo666 6y ago

> Plus the long and heavy administrative paperwork to get a game approved by the authorities. True. I am a game developer in China. I can't afford those paperwork, both in terms of money and energy. I intend to publish my game in Western countries. > There is no reciprocity with China on the game market. True. Besides, china also has cheap labour in gaming industry, where employees are expected to work many hours.

__m 6y ago
Are you a westerner, or does the paperwork also apply to Chinese developers?
- alisonatwork 6y ago
  It apply also to Chinese developers. There is a good article about this from a few years ago: https://egmnow.com/the-closing-walls-around-chinas-independent-game-development-scene/ https://egmnow.com/the-closing-walls-around-chinas-independe... I am guessing things did not change much since then.
- karmasimida 6y ago
  It applies to all. It baffles me sometimes that while gaming industry is booming, create massive opportunities and tax revenue, and it is no way threatening the communist ideology, the government still treats it like a step child, shitting on it whenever it can.
  - justicezyx 6y ago
    Because the CCP does have a moral obligation to nurture the youth, you can label the motive to whatever you want, but addiction to video games are obviously bad for health and wasting a lot of time such that the school work would be affected. Not mentioning the gaming ideology is naturally free and liberalism oriented. There were patriotic games commissioned by government, and have been very awkward. Totalitarian nation's government generally tolerate very little about ideologically different median or mass influence tools.
  - powerapple 6y ago
    I have to say, game is no longer games any more. For console and PC games, it may stay the same as before, (although the freemium is popular as well). Many mobile games, and casual games is about take as much as your time and money as possible through data science. It is pure evil. I bought a switch for my son, but I try to keep him away from mobile games, especially those advertise in apps.
  - snoshy 6y ago
    To be fair, gaming as a consumer is not an inherently productive activity. The production of games, sure, but the tax of the creation is heavily distributed across the consuming population. If what you care about is to have your population be as productive as possible, you want to produce just enough of these entertainment avenues domestically as would be sustainable and not leading to large scale distraction, while still mainly exporting the product that has no such restraints. I think that's actually the challenge at hand for China, and it's not unique to the country. Korea, Japan, and many others face the same issues while having different tools to deal with the phenomenon.
  - em500 6y ago
    Most governments in the world, including most western ones, have a long history of regulations and legal restrictions on gambling. Maybe the Chinese are ahead of the curve in recognizing the similarities in the video game industry.
  - pototo666 6y ago
    At least following factors are considered: - Old Parents hate game. And old parents usually control the policy making and media. - Rent Seeking. As many policies in China, no clear rule in terms of game regulation. You want to pass it? Money helps. Those who make such rules don't care about taxes loses. Different department, different incentives.
- pototo666 6y ago
  I am Chinese. Chinese gaming industry is f*cked hard by these paperworks. It kills many studios and jobs.
- yorwba 6y ago
  Thst is a very good question, and as others have said, the answer is yes. It's also a question you should ask whenever someone demands "reciprocity" by banning Chinese company X from Western markets because Western company Y is banned from China. If you ask "if Y were a Chinese company, would they be banned, too?" the answer is usually yes. Google Search and Facebook aren't banned because of where they're from, but because of what they do, i.e. offering access to information the Chinese government wants censored. A Chinese company offering access to censored information would be shut down long before they got big enough to make international news. There's no need for "reciprocity" by putting more severe restrictions on Chinese companies. Applying the same rules to everyone would be enough. (Requiring all companies listed on US stock exchanges to be audited by the SEC is an example of a step in that direction.)

b0rsuk 6y ago

>There is no reciprocity with China on the game market. There is no single word for reciprocity in Chinese. You can make do with phrases like "mutual benefit".

solstice 6y ago
I think that you're wrong specifically and in what seems like an uncharitable insinuation about China. 对等 duì deng: equal status/treatment, parity (under the law), equity, reciprocity 在对等的基础上 Zài duì děng de jīchǔ shàng on the basis of reciprocity; on a reciprocal basis Source: plecodict
rfoo 6y ago
This is definitely false. Could you help shedding light on how this myth spreads? Like, where did you read about this myth? I have seen it mentioned on HN/Reddit multiple times and can't find the source.

hertzrat 6y ago

Is steam available in China? If not, what platforms do people use? Do you really only get about 15% of the sale price before taxes? I’m making a game of my own and am just curious for the future

meibo 6y ago
Steam is available in China, but it's a separate "instance" ran independently of worldwide Steam with a curated list of AAA games, so without the abundance of content and freedom to publish for everyone. Generally if you want to publish in China I'd say either "don't" and just release a Chinese localization in global stores, if you think that you will have a target audience in China, or find a huge publisher that will help you out.
- rfoo 6y ago
  > Steam is available in China, but it's a separate "instance" Not yet. Despite various sources saying it is "near", the separate "instance" has not been up for now. The main Steam store works in China for the past few years, and it's what everyone uses. Yes, I mean I can buy a copy of Devotion on Steam with Alipay (or Wechat Pay) + RMB, download and play it without messing with anything. I have no idea why it hasn't been banned though. The Steam Community pages did get GFW-ed, just as every other sites hosting UGC without censorship[1]. [1]: If it is not, it's usually just a "Five demands not one less" away from being banned. Even scratch.mit.edu.