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They have put tape on suspected leak areas in Zvezda before.

GordonS 6y ago
So bizarre to imagine a space station patched up with duct tape o_O Assuming the ISS is never going re-enter the Earth's atmosphere, how permanent a solution is tape? Presumably the fracture underneath will get worse with time.
- techdragon 6y ago
  Other than the growth (in terms of length across the surface in question) of a crack/fracture, tape is a pretty valid solution as long as it can hold the pressure. In fact on the “inside” that’s even more strait forward since the pressure pushes the tapes bonding surface interface into the opening, so depending on how malleable the “tape” is, it might not even need “glue” to do the job of sealing a hole sufficiently to hold in the ISS’ internal atmosphere. Effectively the major issue is “larger”width/diameter cracks/holes create greater pressures that eventually exceed the ability of simple “tape” to suffice for a workable patch. This is all ignoring any NASA engineering manuals and limits, I’m talking entirely theoretical “how long can my duct tape keep me from suffocating” type of engineering, just to be clear. What needs emphasis in the long term for more permanent structures in space is on the poorly explored topic of welded joint fatigue, with respect to joints that were welded in low earth orbit. We have welded with several techniques in space before (the Soviets did it) but it basically stopped there and not much has gone into studies of the long term fatigue of the resulting welded joints. If we want permanent space stations we need to be able to “patch them up” in a way that we can rely on and at least have some idea what the lifespan will be. It’s ok if we have to re-weld pressure hull segments every decade or two but not if the large scale structural welds on a space station hull assembled in space only hold for a few years before they start leaking.
  - hef19898 6y ago
    The pressure difference is one bar, so duct tape is more than enough to hold that. Aging is different story all together, so.
    - gspr 6y ago
      > The pressure difference is one bar, so duct tape is more than enough to hold that. This is something I have to consciously remind myself of a lot when thinking about space technology. I have this reflex-like feeling that "the vacuum of space" must be a huge obstacle. But then one remembers that 1 atmosphere is the equivalent pressure of a water depth of 10 m. This always blows my mind. In some sense, humans do live naturally pretty close to one end of an absolute scale (pressure). Dealing with near-0 temperature is hard. Dealing with near-0 spatial distance is hard. Dealing with 0 pressure is actually not that hard in the grand scheme of things.
      - gregmac 6y ago
        This reminds me of one of my favorite Futurama lines as their ship is going underwater: "Dear lord! That's over 150 atm of pressure!" "How many atmospheres can the ship withstand?" "We'll, it's a spaceship, so I'd say anywhere between 0 and 1." https://youtu.be/Ewu-zHH5Qwg https://youtu.be/Ewu-zHH5Qwg
        WalterBright 6y ago
        Space craft are run at much less than 1 atm.
        jccooper 6y ago
        The ISS and all spacecraft that dock with it run at 1 atm. Which is nearly all currently flying spacecraft. (And probably Shenzhou does too, since it's basically a Soyuz.)
        WalterBright 6y ago
        I'm surprised. I read somewhere that Apollo etc. were at fractions of an atm.
        gspr 6y ago
- driverdan 6y ago
  They use kapton tape but close enough.

So bizarre to imagine a space station patched up with duct tape o_O Assuming the ISS is never going re-enter the Earth's atmosphere, how permanent a solution is tape? Presumably the fracture underneath will get worse with time.

techdragon 6y ago
Other than the growth (in terms of length across the surface in question) of a crack/fracture, tape is a pretty valid solution as long as it can hold the pressure. In fact on the “inside” that’s even more strait forward since the pressure pushes the tapes bonding surface interface into the opening, so depending on how malleable the “tape” is, it might not even need “glue” to do the job of sealing a hole sufficiently to hold in the ISS’ internal atmosphere. Effectively the major issue is “larger”width/diameter cracks/holes create greater pressures that eventually exceed the ability of simple “tape” to suffice for a workable patch. This is all ignoring any NASA engineering manuals and limits, I’m talking entirely theoretical “how long can my duct tape keep me from suffocating” type of engineering, just to be clear. What needs emphasis in the long term for more permanent structures in space is on the poorly explored topic of welded joint fatigue, with respect to joints that were welded in low earth orbit. We have welded with several techniques in space before (the Soviets did it) but it basically stopped there and not much has gone into studies of the long term fatigue of the resulting welded joints. If we want permanent space stations we need to be able to “patch them up” in a way that we can rely on and at least have some idea what the lifespan will be. It’s ok if we have to re-weld pressure hull segments every decade or two but not if the large scale structural welds on a space station hull assembled in space only hold for a few years before they start leaking.
- hef19898 6y ago
  The pressure difference is one bar, so duct tape is more than enough to hold that. Aging is different story all together, so.
  - gspr 6y ago
    > The pressure difference is one bar, so duct tape is more than enough to hold that. This is something I have to consciously remind myself of a lot when thinking about space technology. I have this reflex-like feeling that "the vacuum of space" must be a huge obstacle. But then one remembers that 1 atmosphere is the equivalent pressure of a water depth of 10 m. This always blows my mind. In some sense, humans do live naturally pretty close to one end of an absolute scale (pressure). Dealing with near-0 temperature is hard. Dealing with near-0 spatial distance is hard. Dealing with 0 pressure is actually not that hard in the grand scheme of things.
    - gregmac 6y ago
      This reminds me of one of my favorite Futurama lines as their ship is going underwater: "Dear lord! That's over 150 atm of pressure!" "How many atmospheres can the ship withstand?" "We'll, it's a spaceship, so I'd say anywhere between 0 and 1." https://youtu.be/Ewu-zHH5Qwg https://youtu.be/Ewu-zHH5Qwg
      - WalterBright 6y ago
        Space craft are run at much less than 1 atm.
        jccooper 6y ago
        The ISS and all spacecraft that dock with it run at 1 atm. Which is nearly all currently flying spacecraft. (And probably Shenzhou does too, since it's basically a Soyuz.)
        WalterBright 6y ago
        I'm surprised. I read somewhere that Apollo etc. were at fractions of an atm.
        gspr 6y ago
driverdan 6y ago
They use kapton tape but close enough.