3 ms·

Did you read the article? It is literally investigating a possible mitigation using a generic drug that is not a vaccine. I strongly suspect doctors are even tr

Did you read the article? It is literally investigating a possible mitigation using a generic drug that is not a vaccine. I strongly suspect doctors are even treating sick patients currently, and not just telling them to wait for a vaccine. Although, if you're instead trying to compare their effectiveness, yeah, vaccines kinda do appear to be that much starkly better. I'm blown away by how much the actual data curve looks like the dramatic XKCD cartoon version: https://m.xkcd.com/2400/ https://m.xkcd.com/2400/ https://www.idsociety.org/covid-19-real-time-learning-network/vaccines/ https://www.idsociety.org/covid-19-real-time-learning-networ...

AndrewBissell 6y ago
"Vaccines or bust" was in reference to the parent comment, which seems to reflect a broader and widely held perception that any generic drugs must be a bad idea, and the only legitimate course of intervention is vaccines. It was not a (flatly absurd) claim that there are zero studies going on into various generic treatments. Some doctors are refusing to use ivermectin to treat seriously ill patients because the FDA will not issue any recommendations regarding its use: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/after-judge-orders-hospital-to-use-experimental-covid-19-treatment-woman-recovers/article_a9eb315c-5694-11eb-aac5-53b541448755.html https://buffalonews.com/news/local/after-judge-orders-hospit... If you include suspected COVID cases (which dwarfed confirmed PCR results) in the Pfizer trials, vaccine effectiveness falls to between 19% and 29%: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/ https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-...
- manwe150 6y ago
  Ah, gotcha. Who actually holds that idea though? I don't think expressing concern that the hype over hydroxychloroquine is misguided and wasting resources equates to an assumption that all drug research is futile on their part. Indeed, it seems like many drugs have received research attention (I did one quick search that turned up over 3000 trials registered this year for various treatments, though many might have been duplicates or meta analysis or not approved). I have limited time and interest in researching Ivermectin specifically, but, as I see oft quoted here, the plural of anecdote is not data. My understanding is that Remdesivir is currently the best treatment option, is approved by the FDA for use, and was a repurposed drug developed against other viruses. Thanks for the link to BMJ. If that turns out to be true, it would be disappointing to me (relative to 90%). But also still seems to show a reduction in severity, which is good for all of us. Thus also an increased importance that everyone who can gets vaccinated, for their own health (if we learn that you can't depend on herd immunity to protect you) and continued exploration of improved treatments.

AndrewBissell 6y ago

"Vaccines or bust" was in reference to the parent comment, which seems to reflect a broader and widely held perception that any generic drugs must be a bad idea, and the only legitimate course of intervention is vaccines. It was not a (flatly absurd) claim that there are zero studies going on into various generic treatments. Some doctors are refusing to use ivermectin to treat seriously ill patients because the FDA will not issue any recommendations regarding its use: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/after-judge-orders-hospital-to-use-experimental-covid-19-treatment-woman-recovers/article_a9eb315c-5694-11eb-aac5-53b541448755.html https://buffalonews.com/news/local/after-judge-orders-hospit... If you include suspected COVID cases (which dwarfed confirmed PCR results) in the Pfizer trials, vaccine effectiveness falls to between 19% and 29%: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-we-need-more-details-and-the-raw-data/ https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-...

manwe150 6y ago
Ah, gotcha. Who actually holds that idea though? I don't think expressing concern that the hype over hydroxychloroquine is misguided and wasting resources equates to an assumption that all drug research is futile on their part. Indeed, it seems like many drugs have received research attention (I did one quick search that turned up over 3000 trials registered this year for various treatments, though many might have been duplicates or meta analysis or not approved). I have limited time and interest in researching Ivermectin specifically, but, as I see oft quoted here, the plural of anecdote is not data. My understanding is that Remdesivir is currently the best treatment option, is approved by the FDA for use, and was a repurposed drug developed against other viruses. Thanks for the link to BMJ. If that turns out to be true, it would be disappointing to me (relative to 90%). But also still seems to show a reduction in severity, which is good for all of us. Thus also an increased importance that everyone who can gets vaccinated, for their own health (if we learn that you can't depend on herd immunity to protect you) and continued exploration of improved treatments.