3 ms·

Unfortunately I don't see anyone successfully publishing a study critical of BLM when you can get fired merely for mentioning a past study, as David Shor did[0]

by edbob 6y ago

Unfortunately I don't see anyone successfully publishing a study critical of BLM when you can get fired merely for mentioning a past study, as David Shor did[0]. I don't think studies are going to change anyone's mind when the allowed outcomes are politically determined. We're limited to collections of news stories. The collections seem pretty broad - the criteria is basically "killed during a BLM protest"[1][2]. PolitiFact goes with 12-19 by June[3]. The Guardian counts "at least 25" by October[4]. (I don't have a count for the past three months). This counting of deaths of course opens the door to all kinds of quibbles over which deaths "count", e.g. it's not possible to prove one way or the other whether this woman in Minneapolis[5] would have been raped and killed without the cover of the rioting. Is this sourcing acceptable to you, or do you really need a proper study? [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firing-innocent/613615/ https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/stop-firin... [1] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/george-floyd-protests-deaths_n_5ed6475bc5b6079a2ccc0aef https://www.huffpost.com/entry/george-floyd-protests-deaths_... [2] https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/07/05/say-their-names-20-people-killed-in-the-george-floyd-riots-n592577 https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/07/0... [3] https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/07/facebook-posts/no-proof-black-lives-matter-killed-36-people-injur/ https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2020/aug/07/facebook-p... [4] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-killed-protests-political-unrest-acled https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/americans-kill... [5] https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/woman-found-dead-inside-car-in-north-minneapolis-amid-2nd-night-of-looting-fires/ https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/woman-found-dead-i...

kaitai 6y ago
It's a bit tendentious to fail to mention that some of those folks were shot by the police.
- edbob 6y ago
  I did emphasize the criteria, and it seems reasonable to expect any informed person to already know that there was violence from police, protesters, and counter-protesters. But the Guardian source says "All but one were killed by fellow citizens.", so I didn't find it particularly worth emphasizing that 4%.
  - kaitai 6y ago
    One of the pieces you quoted said that two were killed by police.
    - edbob 6y ago
      Which would make it 8%?
- hnlurker 6y ago
  As if some sizable chunk of “unarmed” person shot/killed by police aren’t going for the police officer’s gun or in some other way aggressively resisting arrest. The police are woefully undertrained as it is, it is unreasonable to expect them to also be bare knuckle boxing champs or BBJ black belts. If the police officer is knocked out, then it is reasonable for them to assume they will be killed with their own service revolver. Why is the force continuum so difficult to understand by apparently so many people? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_force_continuum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_force_continuum

by edbob 6y ago

kaitai 6y ago

It's a bit tendentious to fail to mention that some of those folks were shot by the police.

edbob 6y ago
I did emphasize the criteria, and it seems reasonable to expect any informed person to already know that there was violence from police, protesters, and counter-protesters. But the Guardian source says "All but one were killed by fellow citizens.", so I didn't find it particularly worth emphasizing that 4%.
- kaitai 6y ago
  One of the pieces you quoted said that two were killed by police.
  - edbob 6y ago
    Which would make it 8%?
hnlurker 6y ago
As if some sizable chunk of “unarmed” person shot/killed by police aren’t going for the police officer’s gun or in some other way aggressively resisting arrest. The police are woefully undertrained as it is, it is unreasonable to expect them to also be bare knuckle boxing champs or BBJ black belts. If the police officer is knocked out, then it is reasonable for them to assume they will be killed with their own service revolver. Why is the force continuum so difficult to understand by apparently so many people? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_force_continuum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_force_continuum