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Try replacing "politically correct voices" with a proper noun. Who specifically is it that tried to cancel Christmas? And if you asked them if they are actual

Try replacing "politically correct voices" with a proper noun. Who specifically is it that tried to cancel Christmas? And if you asked them if they are actually trying to cancel Christmas, would they say yes?

camjohnson26 6y ago
We’re talking about the greeting, not Christmas in general. I don’t think it’s controversial that it’s considered rude now to wish a stranger Merry Christmas, but here’s a Huffington Post article that argues against it for just one example: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/happy-holidays-instead-of_1_b_8859118 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/happy-holidays-instead-of_1_b... There are good reasons to know your audience before using the greeting, but it’s very rare to hear it at all in many parts of the US, which does seem strange when 90% of the country celebrates Christmas. Since Happy Thanksgiving and Happy Halloween are completely fine to say to a stranger I think it’s fair to say the greeting has been canceled, for better or worse, regardless of original intent.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > I don’t think it’s controversial that it’s considered rude now to wish a stranger Merry Christmas Yes, its very controversial to claim that is the general view. > here’s a Huffington Post article that argues against it But…it doesn’t argue either against saying Merry Christmas or that it is “rude” to say it (or that anything is “rude”.) It argues that it is illegal (a form of workplace religious discrimination) for your boss to compel you to say it, outside of narrow circumstances where it may be a bona fide job requirement. This confusion of arguments that being compelled by government, an employer, etc. to do X is improper and/or illegal with arguments that choosing on your own to do X is immoral, rude, etc. is sadly common.
  - camjohnson26 6y ago
    I disagree, this is from the article: “If you do celebrate Christmas, then please don’t forget that there are many other religious holidays being celebrated in December. Some of your customers and coworkers may not want to have Christmas shoved down their throats.” It definitely might be clickbait but it was one of the first Google results. Clearly at least some people think the greeting is “shoving Christmas down their throats”
    - ineptech 6y ago
      So, you've heard (from the right) that this is widespread opinion on the left, but when you looked at what the left says, you only found fairly minor voices expounding a somewhat weaker version of that claim? That sounds exactly like the 'weak man' thing we're discussing, doesn't it?
      - throwaway894345 6y ago
        The parent didn’t claim or imply that this was the general view of the left; you’ve created a straw man argument here.
        ineptech 6y ago
        Yes they did, read the thread. There are two views here, broadly, about canceling 'Merry Christmas': a) it's a popular view on the left b) it's not a popular view on the left, but some on the right have acted as if it is View b) is equivalent to agreeing that this whole thing is an example of a 'weak man' argument, and a) is equivalent to disagreeing with it. I struggle to see how anyone could read camjohnson26's comments and conclude that they meant b). They cited a link as evidence of a) and complained when I suggested it wasn't persuasive.
        throwaway894345 6y ago
        I still don’t see where in the thread that anyone is suggesting that this is a “widespread” view. The parent notes that some people hold it, and we can imply that enough people hold it (and with enough collective influence) that businesses were coerced into changing their policies, but that doesn’t suggest any kind of majority or even a sizable minority. Indeed, the whole idea behind “tyranny of the minority” is that it takes only a very small minority to drive broad-reaching change in cases like these. I think one of us has misread the thread, but I’ve now triple checked and I don’t think the error is mine in this particular instance.
        6y ago
- ineptech 6y ago
  > I don’t think it’s controversial that it’s considered rude now to wish a stranger Merry Christmas... Strongly disagree. Also, the first sentence of the article you link kind of contradicts you here. Please consider the possibility that this is one of those ginned-up-for-clicks things.

camjohnson26 6y ago

We’re talking about the greeting, not Christmas in general. I don’t think it’s controversial that it’s considered rude now to wish a stranger Merry Christmas, but here’s a Huffington Post article that argues against it for just one example: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/happy-holidays-instead-of_1_b_8859118 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/happy-holidays-instead-of_1_b... There are good reasons to know your audience before using the greeting, but it’s very rare to hear it at all in many parts of the US, which does seem strange when 90% of the country celebrates Christmas. Since Happy Thanksgiving and Happy Halloween are completely fine to say to a stranger I think it’s fair to say the greeting has been canceled, for better or worse, regardless of original intent.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> I don’t think it’s controversial that it’s considered rude now to wish a stranger Merry Christmas Yes, its very controversial to claim that is the general view. > here’s a Huffington Post article that argues against it But…it doesn’t argue either against saying Merry Christmas or that it is “rude” to say it (or that anything is “rude”.) It argues that it is illegal (a form of workplace religious discrimination) for your boss to compel you to say it, outside of narrow circumstances where it may be a bona fide job requirement. This confusion of arguments that being compelled by government, an employer, etc. to do X is improper and/or illegal with arguments that choosing on your own to do X is immoral, rude, etc. is sadly common.
- camjohnson26 6y ago
  I disagree, this is from the article: “If you do celebrate Christmas, then please don’t forget that there are many other religious holidays being celebrated in December. Some of your customers and coworkers may not want to have Christmas shoved down their throats.” It definitely might be clickbait but it was one of the first Google results. Clearly at least some people think the greeting is “shoving Christmas down their throats”
  - ineptech 6y ago
    So, you've heard (from the right) that this is widespread opinion on the left, but when you looked at what the left says, you only found fairly minor voices expounding a somewhat weaker version of that claim? That sounds exactly like the 'weak man' thing we're discussing, doesn't it?
    - throwaway894345 6y ago
      The parent didn’t claim or imply that this was the general view of the left; you’ve created a straw man argument here.
      - ineptech 6y ago
        Yes they did, read the thread. There are two views here, broadly, about canceling 'Merry Christmas': a) it's a popular view on the left b) it's not a popular view on the left, but some on the right have acted as if it is View b) is equivalent to agreeing that this whole thing is an example of a 'weak man' argument, and a) is equivalent to disagreeing with it. I struggle to see how anyone could read camjohnson26's comments and conclude that they meant b). They cited a link as evidence of a) and complained when I suggested it wasn't persuasive.
        throwaway894345 6y ago
        I still don’t see where in the thread that anyone is suggesting that this is a “widespread” view. The parent notes that some people hold it, and we can imply that enough people hold it (and with enough collective influence) that businesses were coerced into changing their policies, but that doesn’t suggest any kind of majority or even a sizable minority. Indeed, the whole idea behind “tyranny of the minority” is that it takes only a very small minority to drive broad-reaching change in cases like these. I think one of us has misread the thread, but I’ve now triple checked and I don’t think the error is mine in this particular instance.
        6y ago
ineptech 6y ago
> I don’t think it’s controversial that it’s considered rude now to wish a stranger Merry Christmas... Strongly disagree. Also, the first sentence of the article you link kind of contradicts you here. Please consider the possibility that this is one of those ginned-up-for-clicks things.