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Please, don't draw a false equivalency between a major political party that does not play host to violent rhetoric, on the one hand, and groups that where plans

Please, don't draw a false equivalency between a major political party that does not play host to violent rhetoric, on the one hand, and groups that where plans (very real, actionable, and actioned-on plans!) to subvert the government are incubated, on the other. Put another way--let's not turn sedition into another us-vs-them political game. That's how democracy ends.

mrec 6y ago
The SWP is not by any stretch of the imagination a major political party. ETA: to quantify that a bit, in the 2010 General Election the SWP ran as part of the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition. Nationally that coalition received 0.04% of votes cast. I can't find any indication that they even put up any candidates in subsequent elections.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  Does this actually affect the correctness of their point? Acting like a reaction to a politically charged breach of the capitol building is equivalent to a page sharing views about COVID and workers rights getting removed? It actually feels absurd to type that sentence out...
  - mrec 6y ago
    I was correcting what looked like a significant misapprehension about the subject of the thread, not arguing for a comparison. Although I can't see anything in throwaways885's comment to suggest that they were talking about the post-Capitol-breach purges. If anything, "for a while" suggests the opposite.
    - BoorishBears 6y ago
      The "this gets more favourable media attention." definitely implies they're referring to the flurry of media attention towards alt-right removals we've been seeing And my point is it's not really a "significant misapprehension" at all, at least not significant to their point. They could be a party of one guy in his underwear and the point would still stand
      - mrec 6y ago
        Per the sibling comment to yours, no, they aren't referring to that. "The point" is attacking a strawman. As a general takeaway, "It actually feels absurd to type that sentence out..." can be a useful warning sign that you're projecting an absurd interpretation onto a reasonable statement instead of applying the Principle of Charity.
        BoorishBears 6y ago
        The sibling comment is confirming my interpretation, that they were referring to the deplatforming! - The deplatforming thing that ramped up in 2018 has overwhelmingly been about things like white-supremacy and neo-nazis... so it hit the alt-right very hard. This is like conservative politicians complaining their followers are being deplatformed when Twitter decides to take a harder stance against white supremacy in the wake of an attack on our capitol which featured the alt-right/ neo-Confederates/ neo-Nazis... you're not confirming what you think you're confirming. The conservatives is not being targeted per se, but it just so happens a lot of neo-nazis are conservatives. Take it as you will. - They're also ignoring the fact the "deplatforming thing" has recently kicked into high gear because of a certain set of events This would be like someone from the Branch Davidians saying "We've always felt persecuted" in March 1993.. there were, but also a little thing happened with 4 ATF agents the month before! That's the point being brought up, those events are very relevant if you're talking about deplatforming today. You don't brush such a major occurrence under the rug if you're arguing in good faith. - Even them saying it ramped up in "around 2018" is disingenuous. It ramped up with Trump and his actions. And there was as a lot of gnashing of teeth over if that was right, if Trump was actually building a hateful support base or if this was just political lynching... And then the Capitol breach occurred and removed all doubt and now we see it accelerating. - Also you read the sibling comment, you should have realized it makes the last part of your comment complete non-sequitur... sometimes it's a useful sign the argument being made just lacking self-awareness
    - throwaways885 6y ago
      Yes I'm referring to the deplatforming that's been going on for several years now. Things really ramped up in 2018 or so.
gotoeleven 6y ago
Yep when those rioters broke into the capital building and rummaged through nancy pelosi's office we were very close to that guy in the bearskin becoming our king.
- gotoeleven 6y ago
  Sorry if I wasn't clear. The rioters should stick to non-seditious activities like burning down police stations and declaring autonomous zones in the middle of major cities.
throwaways885 6y ago
There is no false equivalency. Deplatforming is wrong, left or right, rich or poor. Disenfranchised people not having a voice is a cause of radicalisation and violence. If you don't believe me then talk to the Black community in America. I defended Parler in another thread and I'll defend the SWP here, despite not particularly liking either group.
- BoorishBears 6y ago
  I'm black. I don't believe hate speech deserves a platform. And you're insulting me and black people everywhere trying to create equivalence between Parler being deplatformed for deciding to not moderate hate speech insofar as it didn't amount to a civil tort... and the systematic oppression of black people based on their skin color. It's disgusting you'd stoop so low to try that.

mrec 6y ago

The SWP is not by any stretch of the imagination a major political party. ETA: to quantify that a bit, in the 2010 General Election the SWP ran as part of the Trade Unionist and Socialist Coalition. Nationally that coalition received 0.04% of votes cast. I can't find any indication that they even put up any candidates in subsequent elections.

BoorishBears 6y ago
Does this actually affect the correctness of their point? Acting like a reaction to a politically charged breach of the capitol building is equivalent to a page sharing views about COVID and workers rights getting removed? It actually feels absurd to type that sentence out...
- mrec 6y ago
  I was correcting what looked like a significant misapprehension about the subject of the thread, not arguing for a comparison. Although I can't see anything in throwaways885's comment to suggest that they were talking about the post-Capitol-breach purges. If anything, "for a while" suggests the opposite.
  - BoorishBears 6y ago
    The "this gets more favourable media attention." definitely implies they're referring to the flurry of media attention towards alt-right removals we've been seeing And my point is it's not really a "significant misapprehension" at all, at least not significant to their point. They could be a party of one guy in his underwear and the point would still stand
    - mrec 6y ago
      Per the sibling comment to yours, no, they aren't referring to that. "The point" is attacking a strawman. As a general takeaway, "It actually feels absurd to type that sentence out..." can be a useful warning sign that you're projecting an absurd interpretation onto a reasonable statement instead of applying the Principle of Charity.
      - BoorishBears 6y ago
        The sibling comment is confirming my interpretation, that they were referring to the deplatforming! - The deplatforming thing that ramped up in 2018 has overwhelmingly been about things like white-supremacy and neo-nazis... so it hit the alt-right very hard. This is like conservative politicians complaining their followers are being deplatformed when Twitter decides to take a harder stance against white supremacy in the wake of an attack on our capitol which featured the alt-right/ neo-Confederates/ neo-Nazis... you're not confirming what you think you're confirming. The conservatives is not being targeted per se, but it just so happens a lot of neo-nazis are conservatives. Take it as you will. - They're also ignoring the fact the "deplatforming thing" has recently kicked into high gear because of a certain set of events This would be like someone from the Branch Davidians saying "We've always felt persecuted" in March 1993.. there were, but also a little thing happened with 4 ATF agents the month before! That's the point being brought up, those events are very relevant if you're talking about deplatforming today. You don't brush such a major occurrence under the rug if you're arguing in good faith. - Even them saying it ramped up in "around 2018" is disingenuous. It ramped up with Trump and his actions. And there was as a lot of gnashing of teeth over if that was right, if Trump was actually building a hateful support base or if this was just political lynching... And then the Capitol breach occurred and removed all doubt and now we see it accelerating. - Also you read the sibling comment, you should have realized it makes the last part of your comment complete non-sequitur... sometimes it's a useful sign the argument being made just lacking self-awareness
  - throwaways885 6y ago
    Yes I'm referring to the deplatforming that's been going on for several years now. Things really ramped up in 2018 or so.

gotoeleven 6y ago

Yep when those rioters broke into the capital building and rummaged through nancy pelosi's office we were very close to that guy in the bearskin becoming our king.

gotoeleven 6y ago
Sorry if I wasn't clear. The rioters should stick to non-seditious activities like burning down police stations and declaring autonomous zones in the middle of major cities.

throwaways885 6y ago

There is no false equivalency. Deplatforming is wrong, left or right, rich or poor. Disenfranchised people not having a voice is a cause of radicalisation and violence. If you don't believe me then talk to the Black community in America. I defended Parler in another thread and I'll defend the SWP here, despite not particularly liking either group.

BoorishBears 6y ago
I'm black. I don't believe hate speech deserves a platform. And you're insulting me and black people everywhere trying to create equivalence between Parler being deplatformed for deciding to not moderate hate speech insofar as it didn't amount to a civil tort... and the systematic oppression of black people based on their skin color. It's disgusting you'd stoop so low to try that.