4 ms·

You make a good and valid point. But I'd suggest there is probably more than one exception. For people dealing with cancer, chronic fatigue, clinical depression

You make a good and valid point. But I'd suggest there is probably more than one exception. For people dealing with cancer, chronic fatigue, clinical depression or a bunch of other things I'm not thinking of, the advice to "just power through" is pretty damaging, physically and emotionally.

AbrahamParangi 6y ago
It must be okay to say things that are only 95% true. Otherwise we cannot say anything at all.
- groby_b 6y ago
  It is. Note that OP wasn't criticized for the statement per se, but that PP suggested an amendment to that statement. It must be equally OK to amend incomplete statements, otherwise we stagnate.
  - muench 6y ago
    Something like "But I'd suggest..." is a good example for using "'And' NOT Bbut'" [0] to avoid the connotation of contradiction implied when using 'but'. Very useful like in this case where the intention is amendment rather than contradiction. [0] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/inviting-monkey-tea/201302/and-not-the-secret-healthy-relationships https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/inviting-monkey-tea/...
- jpitz 6y ago
  It is ok to say things that are only 95% true. It is ok to point out the 5%.
  - AbrahamParangi 6y ago
    Yes.
    - bergstromm466 6y ago
      Not sure if you misread it but your “yes” sounds like maybe you read this as a question: “Is it...”, and not the “It is...” that OP wrote. I want to reiterate that for people with few spoons [1], they don’t need to get permission to be allowed to only do what works for them, or to feel shame for not being able to do what can seem easier for others: i.e. ‘powering through’. I’ve seen this ugly thing where people make all sorts of assumptions about me, and perhaps unconsciously, yet verbally, speak out their train of thought, which means they often say something that ‘excuses me’ for not ‘powering through’, or that after reminding them of my background, that they now understand why I do not force myself to ‘power through’. It feels shit and it sucks because it’s a constant reminder of the ruthless productivity that is expected in many areas in modern life. A conversation like this can also slowly lure me back into taking on way too much, way too fast, and not properly looking after myself or others. Not all disabilities are visible. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory
      - jhardy54 6y ago
        Yes.
  - giantDinosaur 6y ago
    Just as often pointing out the 5% is then used as an excuse to not do something, even when the advice does apply. The number of times I've brought up how much a healthy lifestyle matters to have it dismissed because someone they knew/heard of died at 30 from cancer despite being vegetarian and exercising all the time is rather high.
    - kaitai 6y ago
      Hey, this ties in with the Weak Man Superweapon thread! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25876554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25876554
    - stkdump 6y ago
      These are probably people that don't want to live a healthy lifestyle and no amount of pointing at the negatives will change that. Their point isn't "healthy lifestyle doesn't help" but rather "some people beat themself up and make themself miserable with this health stuff and then don't even reap the benefits of that".
- orzig 6y ago
  Worth noting that the portion of people dealing with something that could drain at least some energy each day is almost certainly more than 5% It could be as simple as having a young child, for example.
itake 6y ago
Can you elaborate why "just power through" is pretty damaging? Anecdote: When I depressed or stressed, taking action and following a preset list of tasks (brush teeth, hit the gym, make lunch) doesn't 'cure' my mood, but it does reduce my anxiety/stress/depression. By "powering through it" I stop stress driven by inaction (e.g. not brushing my teeth while result even more stress later). If I stick with my routine, it reduces my cognitive load, allowing my brain time to calm down. Its similar to how mediation helps you stay calm. Following the routine reduces the number of decisions I need to make. As much as I might want, taking a sick day to lay in bed all day doesn't help anything and would make me more depressed as I think about all of the stuff I should of done.
- intrepidhero 6y ago
  I totally get what you're saying with your anecdote and agree that taking action can often be helpful at reducing anxiety/stress/depression. Another anecdote is that sometimes "just power through" is a trigger phrase that leads down a path of shame and self-criticism which only serve to fuel deeper depression/anxiety/stress and so forth. There's a cultural myth that people who struggle are weak and less than people who are successful. Depression can really amplify that story. When I'm in that place I need to scale back expectations, find something (anything) I can do that's healthy, and cut myself some slack. The truth is we all struggle and success has many dimensions. The "just power through" line isn't wrong, in fact, it's exactly what I need to hear sometimes. But it can also be exactly the wrong thing. I think it needs a heavy dose of empathy and compassion along with it.
- kaitai 6y ago
  There are different kinds of powering through. I powered through writing my dissertation and got a PhD. I powered through a workout that felt wrong and got rhabdomyolysis. You win some, you lose some. Consider the risks and the rewards.
  - sul_tasto 6y ago
    My coach used to say, “Know the difference between pain and strain.”

AbrahamParangi 6y ago

It must be okay to say things that are only 95% true. Otherwise we cannot say anything at all.

groby_b 6y ago
It is. Note that OP wasn't criticized for the statement per se, but that PP suggested an amendment to that statement. It must be equally OK to amend incomplete statements, otherwise we stagnate.
- muench 6y ago
  Something like "But I'd suggest..." is a good example for using "'And' NOT Bbut'" [0] to avoid the connotation of contradiction implied when using 'but'. Very useful like in this case where the intention is amendment rather than contradiction. [0] https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/inviting-monkey-tea/201302/and-not-the-secret-healthy-relationships https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/inviting-monkey-tea/...
jpitz 6y ago
It is ok to say things that are only 95% true. It is ok to point out the 5%.
- AbrahamParangi 6y ago
  Yes.
  - bergstromm466 6y ago
    Not sure if you misread it but your “yes” sounds like maybe you read this as a question: “Is it...”, and not the “It is...” that OP wrote. I want to reiterate that for people with few spoons [1], they don’t need to get permission to be allowed to only do what works for them, or to feel shame for not being able to do what can seem easier for others: i.e. ‘powering through’. I’ve seen this ugly thing where people make all sorts of assumptions about me, and perhaps unconsciously, yet verbally, speak out their train of thought, which means they often say something that ‘excuses me’ for not ‘powering through’, or that after reminding them of my background, that they now understand why I do not force myself to ‘power through’. It feels shit and it sucks because it’s a constant reminder of the ruthless productivity that is expected in many areas in modern life. A conversation like this can also slowly lure me back into taking on way too much, way too fast, and not properly looking after myself or others. Not all disabilities are visible. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spoon_theory
    - jhardy54 6y ago
      Yes.
- giantDinosaur 6y ago
  Just as often pointing out the 5% is then used as an excuse to not do something, even when the advice does apply. The number of times I've brought up how much a healthy lifestyle matters to have it dismissed because someone they knew/heard of died at 30 from cancer despite being vegetarian and exercising all the time is rather high.
  - kaitai 6y ago
    Hey, this ties in with the Weak Man Superweapon thread! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25876554 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25876554
  - stkdump 6y ago
    These are probably people that don't want to live a healthy lifestyle and no amount of pointing at the negatives will change that. Their point isn't "healthy lifestyle doesn't help" but rather "some people beat themself up and make themself miserable with this health stuff and then don't even reap the benefits of that".
orzig 6y ago
Worth noting that the portion of people dealing with something that could drain at least some energy each day is almost certainly more than 5% It could be as simple as having a young child, for example.

itake 6y ago

Can you elaborate why "just power through" is pretty damaging? Anecdote: When I depressed or stressed, taking action and following a preset list of tasks (brush teeth, hit the gym, make lunch) doesn't 'cure' my mood, but it does reduce my anxiety/stress/depression. By "powering through it" I stop stress driven by inaction (e.g. not brushing my teeth while result even more stress later). If I stick with my routine, it reduces my cognitive load, allowing my brain time to calm down. Its similar to how mediation helps you stay calm. Following the routine reduces the number of decisions I need to make. As much as I might want, taking a sick day to lay in bed all day doesn't help anything and would make me more depressed as I think about all of the stuff I should of done.

intrepidhero 6y ago
I totally get what you're saying with your anecdote and agree that taking action can often be helpful at reducing anxiety/stress/depression. Another anecdote is that sometimes "just power through" is a trigger phrase that leads down a path of shame and self-criticism which only serve to fuel deeper depression/anxiety/stress and so forth. There's a cultural myth that people who struggle are weak and less than people who are successful. Depression can really amplify that story. When I'm in that place I need to scale back expectations, find something (anything) I can do that's healthy, and cut myself some slack. The truth is we all struggle and success has many dimensions. The "just power through" line isn't wrong, in fact, it's exactly what I need to hear sometimes. But it can also be exactly the wrong thing. I think it needs a heavy dose of empathy and compassion along with it.
kaitai 6y ago
There are different kinds of powering through. I powered through writing my dissertation and got a PhD. I powered through a workout that felt wrong and got rhabdomyolysis. You win some, you lose some. Consider the risks and the rewards.
- sul_tasto 6y ago
  My coach used to say, “Know the difference between pain and strain.”