4 ms·

Narcissistic managers demanding everybody on their team use webcams during meetings hardly refutes clairity post.

Sunspark 6y ago
Wanting to see one's colleagues is not narcissism. There's a valid accessibility reason as being able to see the other person helps people with hearing challenges and also, it's pretty rude to refuse to let yourself be seen. I never understood people who "didn't want to be seen" on camera during meetings (especially meetings with hearing accessibility issues) because those same people were willing to work in the physical workplace. The way I see it, if you refuse to be seen in a virtual meeting, you should _also_ refuse to be seen in person as well.
- stretchcat 6y ago
  Being seen is consequence of working in a physical space, not the objective. Not unless you're a stripper. Phone meetings worked just fine for decades, video chat is pure narcissism. If there were somebody deaf on my team then I suppose I would reconsider it, but there isn't, so spare me the moralizing.
  - Sunspark 6y ago
    I'll be honest. I'm that guy with the hearing accessibility issue. That's why I'm mad about people who refuse to be seen. If we use MS Teams or Google Meet, then it's mitigable because those support computer generated captions (albeit not perfect). But other technologies like Zoom, Webex, etc. don't have that feature, so literally, if there are no captions and I can't see you in order to lipread & read some body language, then we are unable to have a productive meeting. You might as well be speaking a foreign language. Even if everyone has normal hearing, it's still a good thing to be able to see each other to check-in on everyone's body language and well-being. If someone looks really unhappy or looks like they're not taking care of themselves at all, then this is information that they need help with something.
- BlargMcLarg 6y ago
  >The way I see it, if you refuse to be seen in a virtual meeting, you should _also_ refuse to be seen in person as well Unfortunately, I don't have a golden goose. Virtual meetings, by virtue of being new, gave me an opportunity to push back onto the need of seeing one another. Not being in the office would be met with manager talks. >also, it's pretty rude to refuse to let yourself be seen. Are we really doing this? There are so many things that are rude. Not everything has to be met with a resounding "yes" because on a whim, people decide to mimic the work floor to the T without thinking further. I enjoy my visual privacy. To me, it is even more rude to force someone out of their visual privacy for a prolonged time multiple times a day, let alone having to stare at one's own face because the app refuses to build in a way to remove your own video feed without closing it entirely.
  - Sunspark 6y ago
    I responded to Stretchcat with extra detail because I am that guy with a hearing accessibility challenge. In response to what you said, I will add that I live by myself. If I can't see a coworker such as yourself over video, when am I going to get to see anyone? The only in-person interaction I have had since March outside of a neighbor on the sidewalk/going to the grocery store and seeing the cashier/going to the doctor, has been only my mother and only 3 times. This is pretty isolating! You are helping me out by feeling a little bit more connected to people if I can have a video chat with you. I'm very used to isolation, but I can also tell it isn't ideal for my mental health and 2020 hasn't been excellent. Make an exception for me please.
    - clairity 6y ago
      yes, accessibility is a legitimate reason to prefer video calls. but the way you worded your original comment, it implied blanket rudeness for not prefering video all the time for everyone. it would indeed be rude to cut you or anyone else out of a conversation due to accessibility concerns in the absence of alternatives like computer-generated captions (as mentioned in your other comment).

Wanting to see one's colleagues is not narcissism. There's a valid accessibility reason as being able to see the other person helps people with hearing challenges and also, it's pretty rude to refuse to let yourself be seen. I never understood people who "didn't want to be seen" on camera during meetings (especially meetings with hearing accessibility issues) because those same people were willing to work in the physical workplace. The way I see it, if you refuse to be seen in a virtual meeting, you should _also_ refuse to be seen in person as well.

stretchcat 6y ago
Being seen is consequence of working in a physical space, not the objective. Not unless you're a stripper. Phone meetings worked just fine for decades, video chat is pure narcissism. If there were somebody deaf on my team then I suppose I would reconsider it, but there isn't, so spare me the moralizing.
- Sunspark 6y ago
  I'll be honest. I'm that guy with the hearing accessibility issue. That's why I'm mad about people who refuse to be seen. If we use MS Teams or Google Meet, then it's mitigable because those support computer generated captions (albeit not perfect). But other technologies like Zoom, Webex, etc. don't have that feature, so literally, if there are no captions and I can't see you in order to lipread & read some body language, then we are unable to have a productive meeting. You might as well be speaking a foreign language. Even if everyone has normal hearing, it's still a good thing to be able to see each other to check-in on everyone's body language and well-being. If someone looks really unhappy or looks like they're not taking care of themselves at all, then this is information that they need help with something.
BlargMcLarg 6y ago
>The way I see it, if you refuse to be seen in a virtual meeting, you should _also_ refuse to be seen in person as well Unfortunately, I don't have a golden goose. Virtual meetings, by virtue of being new, gave me an opportunity to push back onto the need of seeing one another. Not being in the office would be met with manager talks. >also, it's pretty rude to refuse to let yourself be seen. Are we really doing this? There are so many things that are rude. Not everything has to be met with a resounding "yes" because on a whim, people decide to mimic the work floor to the T without thinking further. I enjoy my visual privacy. To me, it is even more rude to force someone out of their visual privacy for a prolonged time multiple times a day, let alone having to stare at one's own face because the app refuses to build in a way to remove your own video feed without closing it entirely.
- Sunspark 6y ago
  I responded to Stretchcat with extra detail because I am that guy with a hearing accessibility challenge. In response to what you said, I will add that I live by myself. If I can't see a coworker such as yourself over video, when am I going to get to see anyone? The only in-person interaction I have had since March outside of a neighbor on the sidewalk/going to the grocery store and seeing the cashier/going to the doctor, has been only my mother and only 3 times. This is pretty isolating! You are helping me out by feeling a little bit more connected to people if I can have a video chat with you. I'm very used to isolation, but I can also tell it isn't ideal for my mental health and 2020 hasn't been excellent. Make an exception for me please.
  - clairity 6y ago
    yes, accessibility is a legitimate reason to prefer video calls. but the way you worded your original comment, it implied blanket rudeness for not prefering video all the time for everyone. it would indeed be rude to cut you or anyone else out of a conversation due to accessibility concerns in the absence of alternatives like computer-generated captions (as mentioned in your other comment).